What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

[maintenanceman]

Cool Chad… give some more details as to where your head is at on this.

Actually, my comment had less to do with your actual statement than what your perceived point would be taken as.

For instance…

It relates around knowing and realising the fact that the blessing of God was attained fully through Christ,

You used the word ‘was’ and I assume that you really mean this as said. This is different than using the word ‘is’ and I think you kind of hit on it with Dave earlier.

My problem, (and this kind of goes to what Dave was asking you) is the perceived idea that believing in Jesus here and now somehow alters ones position with God (as related to sin) in the here and now.

I witnessed a short time ago an 8 year old boy (who’s grandfather by the way is a baptist preacher) say a blessing over a meal and he asked Jesus to forgive his sins. 8 years old. One of the saddest things I’ve ever heard.

So in other words, from my view, one can believe what Jesus did (what his life and death stood for) but does not have to believe in Jesus to receive said benefits. Now I do realize and agree that following Jesus’ way of living does have benefits (you could call them blessings) but I think it is safe to say that others from other cultural backgrounds could have the same blessings and not really know of Jesus.

And I realize you may well might or might not be saying the same thing but the urge to comment was with me.

[davo]

My problem, (and this kind of goes to what Dave was asking you) is the perceived idea that believing in Jesus here and now somehow alters ones position with God (as related to sin) in the here and now.

Hmmm well, that’s NOT what I was saying.

Now I do realize and agree that following Jesus’ way of living does have benefits (you could call them blessings) but I think it is safe to say that others from other cultural backgrounds could have the same blessings and not really know of Jesus.

Well I’m somewhat biased… believing God’s blessing to humanity was established by and in Christ, which although subjective on my part I can say is a blessing to know and thus worth knowing and ok to share with others.

Having said that… there are any amount of folk who experience God apart from knowing the reality of Jesus… I just conclude that knowing (believing) God via Jesus equates to eternal life, i.e., fullness.

BUT… even in the bible there is clear evidence of folk knowing God apart from being privileged to believe in Christ. Take Cornelius… even before he came into the greater revelation of Christ he was already known of God and fully in His favour (Acts 10:1-4, 35). There was also Yahweh’s OT messiah, the Persian Cyrus (Isa 44:28—45:1, 3-4, 13). Then of course there was Melchizedek… of absolutely no parentage related to the chosen Abram, i.e., Israel, AND YET God’s royal priest (Gen 14:18; Heb 7:1-4).

So my point — however it is that folk experience God and to whatever degree they do so is always because of Christ… and IMO the writer of Hebrews got it absolutely right when he said NOBODY saves quite like Jesus…

Heb 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

That word uttermost means… to the full, or completely and is the word panteles παντελὲς — pantelism

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Let me as an aspiring Holy Fool (i.e. see video), be “radical” here.

Perhaps to believe in Jesus, means to experience him first. Now let me show a hypothetical way, that Native Americans may do this. Let’s view a Wiki article, on the Native American Church

Native American Church

Let me quote a bit:

The Native American Church ( NAC ), also known as Peyotism and Peyote Religion , is a Native American religion that teaches a combination of traditional Native American beliefs and Christianity, with sacramental use of the entheogen peyote.[1]

And let me quote some more:

.> On the other hand, some members seek to restore the relationship between the Church and Christians. They believe that forgiveness is important for the native concept “right-walking”. Most members believe that Jesus Christ and the Great Spirit are one and the same.[9]

Now let me share a Christian English song, from this church:

So now I’m playing the part, of an aspiring Holy Fool. And sharing a Christian way, that might appear to be:

[Paidion]

“Believing in Jesus” is tantamount to “Trusting in Jesus” or perhaps even “Entrusting oneself to Jesus.”

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

It’s much easier to “Trust in Jesus”, if one has experienced him.

It can be what George Fox and subsequent Quakers experience - to varying degrees:

Or this nephew of the Holy Man, Medicine Man, and Christian - Fools Crow experienced. With visions of Jesus and spiritual light…Without the use of plant medicine, mind you.

• Beyond the Lodge of the Sun: Inner Mysteries of the Native American Way

Or what these Tibetans experience (and perhaps the Eastern Orthodox Light Tradition) experiences:

I don’t fault the Native American Peyote tradition, which uses plant medicine - to participate in experiential Christianity.

But some learn to experience Jesus, after having seen him in visions…or as light.

There isn’t “one size fits all”.

[Bowsixtysix]

What does it exactly mean to believe in Jesus?

I would say, the foundation for believing in
Jesus, is firstly to believe who he said he was and not what tradition says he is. And to believe in the message he came to preach [ie] the gospel of the kingdom and all that’s attached to it.

[maintenanceman]

@davo

there are any amount of folk who experience God apart from knowing the reality of Jesus … I just conclude that knowing ( believing ) God via Jesus equates to eternal life , i.e., fullness.

I’ll roll with that