But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” GosJohn 4.23-24.
What do you think these verses mean? How do they relate, if at all, to what the current Church calls ‘worship’? is it possible to worship ‘in spirit’ but NOT ‘in truth’?
I’d like to know your thoughts on this.
It would probably be instructive to examine in this context, the Greek word translated as “worship.” The word is “προσκυνεω” (proskuneō). The prefix “προσ” means “toward” and the root word “κυνεω” comes from the word “κυων,” which means “dog.” So the verb “κυνεω” (though it is not found in the New Testament) would mean to lick like a dog licks his owner’s hand. So together with the prefix, the word “προσκυνεω” would mean “to lick toward,” presumably toward God, where He is the recipient. It is certainly not a physical lick, since God is not physical. But one who so worshipped would be in a similar state of mind.
The Greek word “ἁληθεια”, in some contexts would better be translated as “reality” rather than “truth” (which may be much the same).
So the REAL worshippers to which Jesus refers, will worhip in reality. It won’t be a false worship or just a show, but it will be real worship.
So can someone worship in spirit but not in reality? I think they can put on a front of being very spriritual, and merely SEEM to be worshipping God, but not in reality. Jesus was referring to the Jews who felt they must worship in Jerusalem, while the Samaritans thought they had to worship on a Mount Gerizim. But this was ritual worship and not worship either in spirit or in reality.
How would you assess the following:
" Worship is the response of grateful and humble people to the living God where submission, sacrificial service, praise, profession, testimony and gratitude are freely expressed in innumerable ways. This is a much richer concept than mere corporate singing and praise once each week for 20 minutes - an event that could occur without any actual worship going on at all." xenos.org/essays/what-worship
I think the passage does grasp some important elements, but I notice that it does not mention liturgy. We have a number of EOx people here and I wonder what they would like to say about the passage?
William Temple:
A good quote Cole!
Is it possible to worship the ‘feelings’ of adoration, instead of the Object, I wonder.
Probably. For me, it’s like looking at a beautiful painting. When my focus is off myself and not on my feelings I experience that wonder and joy. If shyness or focusing on my feelings comes in the experience goes away. It’s joy IN God. When I worship God I value Him above all else. When this valuing is intense it is joy in God.
To me, the spirit is what moves you, like an overwhelming feeling that causes you to act as compared to an automatic response. We get so comfortable in our daily routines, we just do things without thinking. I’d put it in terms of like being in the “Christmas spirit”. Our feelings for others become more intense. We look forward to seeing family and friends. We feel more like giving to others and making sure those who are lonely feel included. I would say that the goal is to be in this kind of spirit all the time. As far as truth goes, we must love and practice all things that are of God, such as honesty, responsibility, integrity etc.
Worship is an expression of love. To worship in spirit and in truth is simply a sincere expression of love, accompanied by actions and attitudes in keeping with the expression.
If a man says, “I love you” to his wife, when he is carrying on with another lover, his expression of love is meaningless, an insult even.
I think Psalm 51 and Isaiah 58 are excellent chapters on worshipping in spirit and in truth
“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the Lord will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I. Is 58
Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
you who are God my Savior,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 Open my lips, Lord,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17 My sacrifice, O God, is** a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise. Ps 51**
In speaking of worship Ravi Zacharias quoted D.H. Lawrence who, writing of his own pursuit of happiness, stated,
This has been my experience as well. When things go properly I love God ABOVE ALL ELSE and my neighbor as myself. It goes beyond mere agape into worship. It’s like being married or in love. When Christ reveals Beauty to me He becomes my number one. He opens the eyes of my heart to see He is infinite in value and worth and He alone satisfies the longings of my heart. Not that I never mess up but He always restores the Beauty of Holy Love to me. Because He is most beautiful I worship and adore. This overflows in obedience. I obey that which I worship or love more than anything.
Too bad we don’t have a “like” button, Cole, 'cause I LIKE that post. 
Well, thanks there Cindy! 
The word Paidon used is the most common word for worship and it means " To bow, to stoop, to prostrate oneself before God or a king." One of the reasons I believe that newly ordained Catholic priests prostrate themselves as part of their ordination. It also means “To make obeisence” from where we get the word “obedience” from. In my latest understanding true worship is obedience.
i probably don’t worship enough…i don’t really “do” any of the stuff most churches do when they worship, ie raising my hands did nothing for me but make my arms tired (which distracted me)…standing and repeating endless choruses did the same to my legs. I just didn’t find it helped, and it was worse when some moron on the stage would say that sitting was like switching off your worshipfulness (like there was an off button in your bottom!).
for me that stuff just felt so artificial. i am now in the Church of England, and we sing hymns with rich lyrics you can really think about while singing, and that for me “feels” more worshipful, but hey…maybe i just enjoy this distraction! so i guess i don’t have an answer for this. I don’t prostrate or bow (maybe i will when face to face with God), but only because it feels artificial for me personally. i just try to remember to include God in my life and conversations.
Yes it can. I have observed this phenomenon often, and it’s one reason i really struggle with collective worship in the Charismatic style. It obviously can work for some but never me, not really.
For those times where i know it was not God, but the feelings being worshiped by a lot of people (judgemental, perhaps, however “by their fruit” etc)…well there’s a term called “collective effervescence” which describes it.
For me, worshiping God must be not just a Sunday morning singing, but a lifetime spent helping people that need it. I do not do that enough, but that is true worship. It’s all well and good telling God how wonderful He is, but He doesn’t “need” to hear that. What he desires is that His name and true nature are spread into the world, so that His Kingdom can take root in more hearts…and while there’s a place for pretty songs and hand-raising (if that’s your style), it happens more when we get out there and act like His Disciples.
I confess to being cynical about church worship, but i have too often seen either no fruit at all, or bad fruit, or just a load of people acting drunk or worse, and thinking it was God.