What d'ya think of Guy Fawkes Night?

Kate · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Misanthropy! That’s my favorite word – Ironic, because I actually love people. But, still, it’s nice to build yourself, to steal Emily Bronte’s words, a little “misanthrope’s paradise” from time to time!

Thanks, Uncle Prof. I’m not entirely sure what the last part means, to be honest, becuase – gasp! – I have never listened to Bob Dylan! (My musical taste is possibly more eclectic and archaic than yours, Dick! ) But since the words come from you, I’ll assume I can take them kindly.

As Mel Brooks said, “Hope for the best. Expect the worst. Life’s a play. We’re unrehearsed!”

Would someone please pass the popcorn?

Kate

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

OF course you can take them in the best of possible taste Kate A little bit of misanthropy never did anyone any harm - but as the dominant theme its’ very tedious and just plain neglectful of the evidence

Now here’s a pretty one about Bob Dylan –

The Clash were one of the first Punk Bands. They wrote a song for their first Album ‘Bored with the USA’ much inspired by the fact that all the successful hippy rocker start – prophets of peace and free love and caring and sharing – had upped sticks and gone to America as Tax Exiles.

Then The Clash toured America and became enormously successful and rich. Bob Dylan – born again Bob – saw them and deemed them ‘the last of the true rebels’. By this time they had become so un-cool with their original constituency (even wider than just me - by the way!)

The nice thing about punk is it gave you permission to be discerning with the dictates of celebrity artistes. You didn’t have to dislike like them – just think it through… I like this song because… I don’t like that song because. This person is very rich and famous and concerned about their tax liabilities – they are preaching rebellion or telling me to feel awful about myself as they do about themselves if they’ve reached a certain stage in the product life cycle so - hmmmm

All jolly healthy I think

Love

Dick (Old fashioned boy)

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

I’m not at all bored with the USA - far from it. that song had a specific context aimed at very rich Englishmen who considered themselves arbiters of taste, morality, spirituality in the UK and the world etc - but couldn’t even be bothered to live in the UK. Russell Brand is a boring old fart in that sense too. Build a bonfire! There was a cartoon in the paper today of three angry adolescents with demo placards protesting against being seemingly represented by Russell Brand Who needs remote control?

Old Fashioned Dick

alecforbes · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Crikey!!! (In the immortal words of Steve Irwin)
It’s tough to stay cool as a rocker. I remember when Kurt Cobain accused Pearl Jam of being “sell-outs”. Of course, if you die young as a rocker (or punker), the “coolness” remains forever.

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Well Polly just retired and did something else when she got bored. I think the trick is not to become too famous - or you actually join the establishment, and if you are a bit of a rebel you get pushed into nihilism (like Kurt Cobain). Am I being too harsh on rock stars here? Oh well I am turning into an old fuddy duddy

Love the new avatar Steve

IMHO Otis Redding is the greatest American who had influence on UK music ‘My Girl’ is a beautiful, beautiful love song and heartfelt too when sung by him.

But there’s no accounting for taste

Pass the popcorn

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Here we go - and ignore the dancers

youtube.com/watch?v=2TsxCxewP-A

Kate · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Haha, well, my high school English teacher, who was misanthropic in an endearing sort of way, taught us the word. I just think it’s so funny that “people who hate people” have earned a name for themselves! After all, there seem to be so many misanthropes lurking about (but perhaps I see an over-representation, because I work in the fast food business! )

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

And as Polly once wrote in words that still resonate to this day -

That’s enough of me being a grumpy old man controversialist about music. I had to teach music theory and mark music essays at one point (jack of all trades master of none). But it has been fun shooting my gob off here. So do forgive a boy with old fashioned tastes (who cannot stand the Rolling Stones/Strolling Bones!! apart from if I see them as a sort of pantomime act - which I guess they sort of are )

And here’s a fine love song to sign off with (which really is one of my favourite songs!!! (I’d like to dedicate it to St Augustine of Hippo)

youtube.com/watch?v=bUW2bW2M0BM

alecforbes · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Otis Redding? Really? Great artist but I expect you overestimate his influence on UK Music, but what do I know? (Tried to ignore the dancers but couldn’t, sorry)

The last avatar was too much for me. Someone like, say…. Johnny could handle it, but, like the “one ring”, it threatened to overmaster me. Too much avatar for me. As Clint Eastwood said, “A man needs to know his limitations.” Thought I’d go with the black wolf for awhile as I’m not far from Yellowstone park where wolves were reintroduced about 20 years ago. (And I love wolves, thinking of them as big, wild vicious dogs).

I mentioned Nirvana and Pearl Jam last post and really thought of “Grunge” as a rebirth of Punk at the time. Surprising how short that lasted, but I remember hearing both Nirvana and Pearl Jam on “Saturday Night Live” and being totally drawn in. (I also remember seeing Patti Smith with a jaw dropping performance waaaay back) The lyrics (for Nirvana and Pearl Jan) were indecipherable but the passion and power of the music was hypnotizing. So here’s Pearl Jam and Nirvana on SNL…

Nirvana …vimeo.com/65636919

Pearl Jam…facebook.com/video/video.php?v=214231395264019

Steve

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Sorry about the dancers Alex - they are fine on the other numbers on the show where they do standard Go Go but the Isadora Duncan stuff is well deplorable I should have said shut your eyes.

Otis Redding was a huge influence on Sixties mod Music. Massive. And he was absolutely adored here - at least in London. IT was before my time - but this I know is true.

The Nirvana and Pearl Jam racks are very powerful and meant to blow you away - I know both tracks well. I had some neighbours one who used to play them late into the night Grunge is probably a development of American punk (and they have some of the intensity of the Who in the early seventies too I guess, and some of the hypnotic quality that you get in some songs by the Doors). I remember being blown away by some of the Who’s stuff when I was younger because of it’s intensity too.

Mind you - there were some post punk English who went down that road - Joy Division was one. But the original English punk was just not as serious. It was far more of a send up and owed quite a lot to music hall comedy acts. I like a laugh

Oh dear I hope I haven’t given offence by my quirky take on Pop music. (Loads of my mates were musicians when I was young - I got used to being argumentative about music)

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

I sometimes wonder about that sort of ritual intensity. Again its’ Ok as one colour in a wider pallet but if it becomes monochrome - well it tends to express frustration, fear of death and perhaps even fascination with death. So l like the wide pallet with artists that can also express fun, kindness, a sense of the ridiculous etc. Some monochrome dark band can also express tenderness - but it’s often a sort of desperate tenderness or a sentimental one. It doesn’t really make any difference if a band is explicitly religious or not - some religious bands are darker than dark in their subtexts. (I’m glad James isn’t posting at the moment - or he’d be out for my blood too now - but that’s the only reason I’m glad. I really miss James )

alecforbes · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

No, not at all! This is fascinating stuff for me. I think Pop music is very interesting and love your insight. I really had no idea about Otis Redding’s influence on UK music. It reminds me of the movie “The Commitments” based on the novel by the Irish writer, Roddy Doyle. Fantastic film (and the music is even better). Young Dubliners form a band and play music by Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett etc. If you ever decide to watch a movie, I suspect you’d enjoy it!

Interesting that British punk was so influenced by the British music hall comedy acts. I certainly see that influence in The Kinks, though they may not be exactly “Punk”.

I agree that the Nirvana and Pearl Jam tracks are powerful and hypnotic and wonder what it is in me that is attracted to that? Something deep inside seems to be moved by the over-dramatic, over emotional. Hmmmm…….Best to be aware of it, I guess…

P.S. Just saw your post above and agree that that “ritual intensity” can certainly become “monotonous”. Even *The Who *had there lighter moments, but Nirvana… not so much. Persisting in that intensity and darkness (I think) points to some major issues. I miss James as well and would love to hear his input.

Steve

Matt_Wiley · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Johnny, I admit I’m not a huge fan of Bob Dylan, but I do like some of his stuff, and his songwriting is great, even if he may not be the best singer in all the world, as I’m sure you’d admit. He doesn’t exactly have a lot of range, but that’s okay, everyone has their niche.

My favorite song of his is The Times Are A-Changing, which is a great tune and is still relevant today I think.

But as far as old rockers go, it’s Led Zeppelin for me, followed not too far behind by Pink Floyd.

I guess I’m the opposite of old fuddy duddy when it comes to music, as I’m a fan of dubstep, chillstep, and other such variations that virtually everyone over 40 knows nothing about

You guys probably wouldn’t like most of the stuff I listen to in that genre, but you might like some of it.
Here’s a lovely piece of music by a guy who makes lovely music in general, accompanied by a lovely video (I’m saying lovely a lot today ). Remember to put it on fullscreen and wear headphones, if at all possible :

youtube.com/watch?v=NDdFfEQ308I

Enjoy

P.S.

Here’s a couple more examples of some of the stuff I listen to, to give you a better idea:

youtube.com/watch?v=YI5qqBzGbJM

youtube.com/watch?v=cIzM9p3dUm8

youtube.com/watch?v=SiAOmkqgIhU

youtube.com/watch?v=UZPacRU5N5w

Matt_Wiley · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Speaking of Pearl Jam, I love their song Release, that song has a lot of spiritual potency to it:

youtube.com/watch?v=SbifWUl0NbQ

Kate · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

“My Girl” is the first song here I’ve heard before! Cheers But that’s not because I have any sort of taste. Nope, there’s a commercial for “Skyline Chili,” my region’s “signature” food, that parodies “My Girl” in the commercial:

youtube.com/watch?v=m7ZVkQoUeXg

No one apart from born-and-raised Cincinnatians seem to think Skyline is any good. (But it’s delicious – you all are the crazy ones. ) To me, “real” chili comes on spaghetti, topped with onions, cheese, oyster crackers, and hot sauce!

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

I love The Commitments!

Yes the Kinks are very music hall - and they’ve always been cool because they were never famous enough not to be.

Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols is not a real person - the person behind the character is a bit more tedious - he’s a character based on music hall artists’ take on Richard III the hunchback villainous sneering king. Polly Styrene as a character resembles Marie Lloyd the music hall star big time - especially the goofy gusto and endearing gaucheness.

Steve Marriot of the Small Faces modelled his voice on Otis Redding - and they also did music hall type songs like Lazy Sunday Afternoon and Itchycoo Park (Steve played the artful Dodger as a child actor in the 1948 film of Oliver which is a classic). And when Otis did Ready Steady Go the crowd went wild - it’s gone down in history as the best gig ever on UK TV.

Sadly the music hall narrative song tradition has died out

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

That was a triple post all at once

Matt_Wiley · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

And I think it’s safe to say that the topic has shifted from Guy Fawkes to music

Did you guys want to start a new thread?

alecforbes · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Madness, I tell you, MADNESS!!!

Beautiful music, Matt! Cleans the palate, so to speak, after Nirvana and Pearl Jam. Is the artist from Oregon or Washington? The landscape looks like it might be…perhaps the Olympic peninsula and the Cascade mountain area? Glad you like Pearl Jam! I can’t listen to them for long as the darkness does indeed get tedious but there’s some real honesty there (and real pain, I’d say). Sorry you missed the “V for Vendetta” avatar I had for a bit. Appreciate your movie review and ended up watching it a couple nights ago. Very powerful movie and one I’ll have to see again.

Kate, spaghetti in chili is just plain weird! Who thought of that? Now chili mac (chili with macaroni) is well accepted and “normal”, but spaghetti… no way! I kid, of course, and interestingly (or probably not) had family in Cincinnati in the early 1800’s who later went West)

Steve

Sobornost · March 9, 2018, 2:41am

Otis being crowned king by the London Mods (the dancers are a lot better when they do what they’re good at!!!)
youtube.com/watch?v=xi_7iBskm94

Small Faces do music hall
youtube.com/watch?v=zXeRB-3nDR8