I live of you
You live off me
And the whole world lives off of everybody
See we gotta be exploited, see we gotta be exploited
By somebody, by somebody, by somebody
youtube.com/watch?v=WlTzouoTGfc
Polly is becoming a real asset in this discussion!
Dick, the modern version of the GF mask, as modelled by Steve, derives from a graphic novel by the British writer Alan Moore, called V for Vendtta. It was made into a film a few years ago - Matt has posted about the movie. Now I’ve never read a graphic novel, but I think they are basically comics for grown ups - and they tend to be pretty dark, from what I can discern.
But don’t worry, you stick with your history books, music hall brochures and George Formby records and you’ll be fine 
.
J
Each to his own Johnny boy - you stick with yer boring old farts and state of the art films (never trust a hippy!) - and I’ll stick with the Empress of non -nihilist Punk and all true non-posey rebels.
-
I wanna see some history 'cause now I got no reasonable economy
-
who needs remote control from the civic hall
-
let me tell you bout Pete didn’t want no fame and gave all his money away
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and its a punky reggae party and its tonight!
I rebel therefore we exist
Och Johnny I was only joking – perhaps I am an old fashioned boy But I like to showcase artistes on site here who are not WASPS with damage or Thrash Metal. Funny you should mention George Formby the music hall performer – irritating man ‘ Mr. Woo etc…’. But I love music hall songs – and I guess Poly was in the tradition of Marie Lloyd – ‘Hold your had out you naughty boy;, last night in the pale moonlight saw you’. My favourite sixties bands – Mods rather than Punks - although there was a family resemblance – were much influenced by music hall narrative songs. The Small Faces were a cross between American Soul and English Music Hall. And they were welcoming to Pat Arnold one of our loveliest imports from the USA who came here to escape Ike Turner’s violet rages. See –
youtube.com/watch?v=3rLF-QAS67I
and
youtube.com/watch?v=oo__EIXzAco
We are the Mods!
love
Dick
My dear Dick, those of us who were privileged to witness your spoon playing first-hand the other day know for a fact that a fuddy-duddy you are not 
.
However, if I discover that by “boring old fart” you were referring to the world’s greatest living poet, greatest living American and greatest living person to have written a song including this stanza -
Someone’s got it in for me
They’re planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they’d cut it out quick
When they will I can only guess
They say I shot a man named Gray
Took his wife to Italy
She inherited a million bucks
And when she died it came to me
I can’t help it if I’m lucky
- I shall have to ask you to step outside!
Is that Bob Dylan - well he has written some good songs. He thing about having punk in ones formative years is that it allowed a certain latitude of prejudice - because those older hippies I grew up with were sooooo patronising and smug. We had to do something different. Oh it was part of the whole thing to find anyone famous and rich extremely boring. But the funny thing is that I really love music and on the whole I like my music sweet.
I have to say, Dick, you’re filling in the gaping holes in my musical education quite well (especially in the realm of Punk and “Mod”) I’m loving the Polly Styrene tracks! I didn’t hear much of the Kinks over here (other than *Lola *and You Really Got Me until they came out with The album Give the People What They Want in 1981. I practically wore the grooves off that album. I’ve always loved the humor in the Kinks music and Father Christmas always brings a smile to my face when I hear it in the Christmas season. Unfortunately Small Faces never caught on over here (at least that I can remember) so will have to dig in to that…
Johnny, I’m embarrassed to say I was never much in to Bob Dylan when I was younger. 
It seemed they played Tangled Up in Blue over and over and over on the radio. Now that I’ve heard a wider variety of his work, it’s a different story. He actually came on tour to our little city two summers ago and we got to hear him live! His voice ain’t what it used to be but hey…IT’S FREAKIN’ BOB DYLAN!!! Awesome band especially the lead guitarist Charlie Sexton. Took the kids to the concert so they could say “Hey, I saw Bob Dylan in concert!”
I’m liking the heritage tour idea more and more, Dick. 
Potatoes cooked in embers, mulled wine for the traditionalists and bitters and stout for the others. Participants can build your own effigy and have a choice of the “new” Guy Fawkes masks or the heritage masks. (I would suggest calling the heritage masks “retro”… you know, to draw in the younger generation )
Steve
Hi Steve
Hmmmm ‘Retro’ sounds like a distinct selling point! And also I guess it would be possible to do a CD compilation mixing Polly’s iconic bonfire of the vanities anthems with Handel’s Royal Fireworks Music to pursue the post modern further. Definite possibilities here!!!
Yes – the I love the Kinks and like the Small Faces they were too good to be really famous (which means they can be doubly special if you like them). The Small Faces never toured America - the Kinks did a couple of concerts but weren’t that interested in being massive.
The Kinks two best loved songs this side of da pond are Waterloo Sunset (a song after the old music hall narrative fashion) and Days. Here’s the links to the Kinks performing Waterloo Sunset in 1967, and of Kirsty MaCool performing Days in 1987 (Kirsty was my other favourite new wave/punk girl – a really sweet person like Polly but this time with the voice of a serahpic angel, and not an avenging one
Steve, that’s cool, I didn’t get into Dylan properly until I was a student. As a rebellious youngster I was into punk, like Dick. Still am .
I am now officially a Bobcat - a Dylan fanatic. Seen him in concert maybe 13 or 14 times, own 50+ albums, many of them on vinyl and CD and as downloads. There was a time when I didn’t listen to anything except Dylan albums, and I would personally have committed GBH on anybody who said they didn’t like him . I’ve mellowed a bit now .
You’re right, his voice is pretty much shot after 50-odd years of smoking. It was never exactly sweet to begin with, obviously. But it’s now a *great *blues voice - perfectly attuned to the predomimantly melancholy, mordant - some might say morbid - songs he writes these days. I don’t know if you’ve listened to his latest album, Tempest. It’s very dark, full of regret, fatigue, heartache and seeming spiritual fatalism (“there is no understanding of the judgements of God’s hand”). Heck, the guy’s 72, and he hasn’t exactly lived a healthy lifestyle. So it’s hardly surprising he hasn’t felt the shadow of the Grim Reaper looming at his shoulder.
And of course, for a Christian, he has been a huge, huge inspiration - so honestly has he articulated his spiritual journey, given voice to his own inner turmoil, his doubts, his fears, his hopes and his joys, over the years. But although he now publicly abjures any orthodox religious affiliation,I am in no doubt that he remains a “true believer”. The man who wrote *Every Grain of Sand *cannot be anything else.
Cheers
Johnny
A Bobcat 
DO they spray to delineate territory?
Johnny and I are having soft war here - he for Bob me for Polly (and for Steve and Ronnie) :
And here’s the avenging angel being interviewed (she was scary!!! )
Hey Johnny - I’ve had a frustrating few days - so why not let’s fall out over something really trivial like musical taste . It’s cathartic - and we can patch it up after Alex locks the thread down. We’re universalists - that’s what we do!
Some say I am for Polly, others for Bob - and let’s pretend for a moment we don’t’ have a deeper unity.
As for Bob - grated he can put a waspish irony in his lyrics - granted in many ways he is a bit of a genius.
The lyric alludes to Blake I think -
'To see the world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour
This is an augury of innocence and of pure vision. Bob kind of sullies all such moments with regret - and his religious stuff is full of the inclination to accuse Cain (well the stuff I’ve heard is - so the self accusation over not being great enough in self accusation and encouraging others to self accusation strikes a false note here). Likewise I’ve never heard a truly tender love song by Bob, lyrical or musical (I’m not sure he even likes women very much - ’ Lay’ lady lay’ and ‘Just like a woman’ fail to convince me). He’s a complex guy, he’s an interesting guy - but he don’t speak with universality when he does his Christian shtick. He’s a representative of the sick soul tradition and not too mindful of the image of God tradition - so I think I see Bob as a certain theme but not the only one. You see this too Johnny - so I hope you shop around a bit more for musical spiritual inspiration too.
Lock the thread Alex - quick. Urgent!!!
P.S. Into punk are we? The Ramones don’t count - they we’re always reassuring to hippies with their reassuringly long hair. I’ll believe you are into punk Sir when you stand up and declare ‘Polly Rocks!’ with a contrite heart Sir. (and perhaps 'Steve and Ronnie, gone but not forgotten too) - because Small Faces were ultra cool for Punks). Thus musical taste begins to resemble the inquisition - and we are back to bonfires again
Now you know I’m only joking boys and girls. I think of the punk rock oeuvre there are about twenty five songs in total I can bear to listen to - because they are witty and funny. The rest are truly dire!!! And of the good ones you have to listen to them with some sweet roots reggae in between each track because that’s how we used to listen to them - alternating the two styles.
Bob Dylan is cool - he is just a bit rich and famous and serious
You’ll find me listening to Anglican Choral music, Vaughan Williams pastoral etc. these days as much as I listen to Polly and the boys. Oh and I love baroque clavichord music, madrigals and troubadour songs too. So I’m a complete pseud!!!
And here’s a lovey Sufi song
youtube.com/watch?v=jAgRxpMzeCk
love
Dick
Awww…. just as I’d gotten the popcorn out to watch the show!
Hmm… a brawl between Prof and Parker. Now that would be interesting to say the least!
But I don’t know if I could watch my two favorite British boys fighting for too long – I’d have to step in and break things up! ('Cause you all know my noodle arms pack a mighty punch! )
Nice picture, Kate!!
Danke, Dave!
Well. Well well well. Well well well well well.
Some good observations on his Royal Bobness, Dick. One or two of them might even have a grain of truth in them. Ahem.
But before I tie you to a hurdle, drag you through the streets of old London town behind my horse, sling a rope round your neck and hang you within a whisper of your life, eviscerate you with a blunt spoon and set fire to your lights and melts before your very eyes, let’s just remind ourselves who we’re talking about here.
We are talking about the greatest living American. The guy who single-handedly invented folk music, folk-rock music, protest music, country and western, gospel, rock, Christian rock, ska, house, hip hop, dub, garage, techno, heavy metal, black metal, thrash metal, death metal, doom metal, grindcore and rap.
The guy who changed music forever. The guy without whom there would be no Bruce Springsteen. No Simon and Garfunkel. No David Bowie. No Tom Waits. No Dire Straits. No Neil Young; no Crosby, Stills and Nash; no Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. No Patti Smith, no Smiths, no Roxy Music, no Beatles, no Rutles, no Elvis, no Rolling Stones, no Michael Jackson, no Pink Floyd, no Deep Purple, no Green Day, no Tangerine Dream, no Sex Pistols, no Clash, no Slipknot, no Spinal Tap, no Black Sabbath, no Boyzone, no One Direction, no Miley Cyrus, no Wreckless Eric, no Chas and Dave, no Bob the Builder, no Mozart, no Beethoven, no Rimbaud, no Keats, no Byron, no Milton, no Shakespeare and DEFINITELY no X-Ray-Spex.
The guy who wrote Blowin’ in the Wind, The Times they are A-Changin, Knocking on Heaven’s Door, Subterranean Homesick Blues, Tangled Up in Blue, I Want You, Desolation Row, Like a Rolling Stone, If Not for You, Chimes of Freedom, A Hard Rain’s A-Gonna Fall, Maggie’s Farm, Ballad of a Thin Man, Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35, All Along the Watchtower, Forever Young, Gotta Serve Somebody, Highway 61 Revisited, Mr Tambourine Man, This Wheel’s On Fire, Jokerman, Positively 4th Street, Blind Willie McTell, I’ll Be Your Baby Tonight, With God on Our Side, Make You Feel My Love, Hurricane, I Shall Be Released, It’s All Over Now Baby Blue, Queen Jane Approximately, Visions of Johanna and Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again. To name but 32.
The guy about whom Barack Obama said “there is not a bigger giant in American music” (not bad, considering he’s only five foot one); and about whom the Pope said “I love that one with the chorus that goes everybody must get stoned”.
The guy who England fast bowling legend Bob Willis loves so much he changed his name by deedpole from Robert George Willis to Robert George Dylan Willis.
That guy.
Now, en garde, sir.
There’s a lot to unpack here, Dick. I think you are ominously, almost uncannily accurate in your summary of Dylan’s ‘religious stuff’. There is a really scary, hellfire and damnation aspect to his Christianity. I see nary a flicker of Universalist hope in his lyrics - as epitomised in this stanza from Ring Them Bells:
That’s pure, unvarnished ECT theology .
“Sick soul tradition” is right, Dick, sadly. Despite the great beauty and spirituality of so many of his songs, overtly ‘religious’ or not, Bob has always had a darkness, a melancholy in his soul. Check out this stanza from What Good Am I, released on the same album (Oh Mercy) as Ring Them Bells:
Heck, this is the man who wrote the line “when the cities are on fire with the burning flesh of men, just remember death is not the end”.
Troubling, for a fully paid up Bobcat .
More soon
Love
Johnny
Bob Dylan gone religious is a bit like St Augustine of Hippo (or Malcolm Muggeridge) having a groove with a bunch of cool cats laying down the rhythm.
To Carthage then I came
Burning , burning burning
O lord thou pluckest me out
O Lord thou pluckest
Burning
Its’ sort of like the penitential psalms set to a back beat – but David also danced before the Ark of the Lord and sometimes the Lord delighted in David. This – ‘I am an horrible, horrible, horrible little man’ is OK as a theme and a flavour – or a colour in a wider palette; but old Bob’s got his needle stuck and the misanthropy is not a new thing. He should think on something heart warming about a fellow human being before he universalises his sentiments. And it can all start to seem like a bit of a pose I guess – and a studied pose too. He may be a genius – but I don’t want to think about my Johnny taking consolation in this stuff too often in a dark hour. And anyway – he’s a song and dance man. If I needed to have a tooth out I’d do to a dentist not to a butchers’; if I needed spiritual succour I’d go to someone experienced and wise in reflection on the spiritual life and empathic to fellow human beings struggling with their weaknesses and splendour - and not to a song and dance man who was and is driven by his appetites.
When I was young and foolish for a brief time I thought Pete Townsend was somehow spiritually wise - and what could be more foolish than that But I still enjoy some of his music - not so much the angry stuff these days though But yes Pete wrote some good songs - but was always and still is a plonker.
Pass the popcorn gentles– and lovely avatar Kate (and when I think on Kate for example I know Bob is just too, too selective in his judgements; he’s gazing in a mirror without trying to see through it).
Love
Dick (cautious optimist and hopeful pessimist)