The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What d'ya think of Guy Fawkes Night?

Evangelical Universalism
#101

Oh boy… I’ve learned more of about the British Music Hall tradition and it’s influence than I could ever imagine. I even read the wikipedia entry (was that written by you, Dick? :smiley: ) Honestly, fantastic stuff! I’ve enjoyed hearing Polly and Marie Lloyd, learning about the Johnny Rotten character and Otis Redding’s influence. I suppose learning about a country’s art helps understand the country’s people. :smiley:

Sorry about the digression into Mexican food. :frowning: One thing led to another and without adult supervision… :wink:

“And now, for something completely different…” I offer this song, fleshed out from a song fragment of Bob Dylan’s from a bootleg tape this group’s frontman acquired on a family trip to London. The songwriting credits are shared between Dylan and the Ketch Secor (Jack Ketch?). The group, Old Crow Medicine Show, was at the forefront of the current “Americana”, “Roots music” or whatever that Mumford and Sons (from England , of course) is the current big name. Interestingly, Darius Rucker, of Hootie and the Blowfish fame, had a number 1 hit on the country charts with his version of the song, and also was successfully sued by Bob Dylan for plagiarism for one of his Hootie songs. I prefer the “official video” but it’s slightly risqué (and could, perhaps, be offensive) so will link to something tamer.youtube.com/watch?v=yswz5MtGey0 The OCMS version is much better (IMO) than Darius’. The confused geography regarding the Cumberland Gap was apparently intentional. I love the twangy harmonies. :smiley: (Kate might even like this as a country fan!)

Steve

#102

That’s a great song - ‘Whoa rock me mamma like a wagon wheel’ :smiley: The are harmonies are good and rich too :smiley: And ‘Hootie and the Blowfish’ is a great name :smiley: So that’s three big smiles from me :slight_smile:

#103

Glad you like it, Dick! :smiley:
It’s an easy song to listen to frequently (and does make me smile.) :smiley: I mentioned the confused geography because Johnson City, Tennessee is actually east of the Cumberland Gap. Ketch Secor wrote “west” because it was a “stronger word” than “east.” (And of course, that’s certainly true in America).

Darius Rucker is interesting guy. He was in “Hootie and the the Blowfish” as I mentioned, a fairly successful “frat-rock” band, but went solo and crossed over into Country music. What’s interesting is that he is African-American and African-Americans in country music are few and far between. He’s been very successful and well-accepted in the Nashville crowd.

P.S. You London guys stay up late! Just looked at the clock thingy on my iPhone and man…

Steve

#104

Darius Rucker. :smiley: His new song, “Radio,” plays all the time on my local country station.:slight_smile:

Now, I gotta ask: When British folks sing country music, do they attempt a down-home twang? I mean, sometimes, if I’m singing something that’s obviously British (like something from “Sound of Music” or “My Fair Lady”), it only feels right to sing in an accent – because I haven’t heard it any other way. Do you all do the same?

Yep! :laughing: Sorry, everyone! If you retrace our chain of thought, funny enough, the digression pretty well makes sense.

I think you all on the other side of the pond stay up later than me most nights – even with the five hour time difference! :laughing:

#105

Now that’s good about Darius begin accepted in the C&W world - that’s really great news :smiley: (Why does Bob have to sue anybody - he’s made enough money :laughing: )

Wow ‘The Cumberland Gap’ - there was a famous skiffle song about that which I heard a lot when I was in my pram!!! And the first record I ever liked so much that my Mum and Dad ever bought it for me - because I used to sing it to myself all of time- was ‘The Battle of New Orleans’ (by the same guy who did Cumberland Gap) - and it was all about the British getting a good kicking from the Americans :laughing:

Oh we fired our guns and the British kept a coming
There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they went running
Down the Mississippi to the court of Mexico
Oi!

A traitor most horrid was I it seems :laughing:

As for the question about what accent we sing Country music in in the UK :confused: - I’ll have a ponder and get back to you. But I will say that when I was younger I use to add simulated steel guitar breaks whenever we sang a country song for fun by sounding a appropriate sequences’ of voiced notes at the same time as doing glottal clucks - very effective it was too for laughter raising :laughing:

#106

Well C &W – the Dixie Chicks are cool (although I think they are more Blue Grass) – and I really like Dolly Parton because I don’t thinks she takes herself to seriously, she has a really charming speaking voice and is basically a very kind person.

I guess if I’m singing C & W in the bath I put on some sort of Southern American accent Mind you my American accent is nowhere near as good as a rather talented young American lady I once heard on the net doing an English accent in the guise of a certain Mildred Turnbottom.

As far as English people really singing country influenced songs goes – well try out dear Kirsty MacCool (I know it’s rockabilly rather than strictly country – but I guess she’s’ basically singing it with an English accent and it sounds fine because she’s making it her own music and doing it tongue in cheek)

youtube.com/watch?v=DL2GmaI3Xus

Also there was a very famous instance of an American singing music hall based songs in a film – sweetened up and without the raucousness and with a very, very dodgy cockney accent :laughing: . Check him out at –

youtube.com/watch?v=kw4gpy1BweM

I – and others - have been known to do an impersonation of this American doing impersonations of English music hall type songs – and that’s really post-modern! :laughing:

#107

Hey Johnny –

I just want to say in praise of Bob that I think that documentary of him coming to London when he was a young star is hilarious- especially all of his encounters with the stuffy class ridden side of English culture that was so prevalent then (and which American culture did so much to loosen up). And he has written some very good songs – I just wouldn’t take him as a guide for my inner life or want to over identify with Saint Bob the Flagellant of recent decades.

The Ramones – yes they were an influence on English Punk along with the other New York bands. They were basically power pop – churning out good simple pop songs with power chords. But I think the main reason they appealed to the ironical English Punks – apart from their simplicity – was that the lead singer sounded a bit like Kermit the Frog – and that was very, very cool indeed :laughing: .

#108

I love Dolly Parton! I remember reading in an interview that she came from very humble roots and would do songs for her stuffed animals in her yard as a kid.

:laughing: :laughing:

Odd, but to my Midwestern ears, Kristy McColl almost sounds like a Midwest person putting on a southern accent to sing country. If I sing country, I ironically sound more like Kristy McColl, because I don’t have a southern accent either. Anyway I liked her song very much!

And Dick Van Dyke’s has such a distinctive voice as it is, so I don’t know why they picked him to play a Cockney chimney sweep in Mary Poppins. I think everyone here knows his accent is far off, but when the film came out, I guess celebrity trumped authenticity.

But that won’t stop by from attempting Cockney when I sing out to “Wouldn’t it be Lovely” (when no one’s home of course – I don’t want anyone’s ears to bleed! :laughing: )

~ Kate

#109

Dick van Dyke’s accent is absolutely charming – it’s authentic Walt Disney cockney and as such has its own pedigree :laughing: . Seriously I think genuine cockney would have been difficult for an American audience to understand at the time (when there wasn’t as much contact as there is today) – so that’s one of the reason they used Dick van Dyke. And one of the reason they used Julie Andrews is that they wanted a prettified view of Olde Englande :laughing: .

‘Wouldn’t it be lovely’ – Julie Andrews doesn’t do that too bad – but I think Bernard Shaw’s Eliza was intended be more raucous than her (and Bernard Shaw’s Eliza does not end up marrying the control freak elocution professor either – she’s too feisty for that). But it’s a good song and the father in the film - Mr ‘Get me to the church on time’ – is Stanley Holloway. He really was a music hall star.

Glad you liked the Kirsty video – fair point about American ‘accents’ whit such a big country. She was a pretty, extremely witty and very kind girl. Sad to say that she died young – pushing one of her children out of the path of a speed boat and dying instead of the child. She died a hero and her memory is especially fond because of this – but she’s sorely missed for her wit and warmth.

#110

Just for good measure, I busted out my mom’s CD of old show tunes today while I drove to school. :laughing:

“Disney cockney” – That’s the best kind, I’m thinking! :laughing:

Yep, I love old show tunes. (I largely have my dad to thank for that. He loves old black-and-white movies and TV shows. We still watch *The Dick van Dyke Show *and The Odd Couple (my favorite) quite often. And he was also the one who taught me to enjoy a warm cup of tea. You two would get along right quick, I think, Uncle Prof. :slight_smile: ) Anyway, my favorite old musical is probably “Singin’ in the Rain.” My mom would often sing “Good Morning to You” when I got out of bed as a kid. (Sometimes, she still does. :laughing:)

youtube.com/watch?v=GB2yiIoEtXw

If I teach art at an elementary school, I’ll be sure to play this song from time-to-time for my morning class.

#111

That’s a wonderful clip Kate :smiley: I’m sure I’d get along just fine with your Dad. My Dad was just as likely to break into ‘Good morning, good morning’ as ‘Pretty little Polly Perkins of Paddington Green’. I grew up with American show songs too and many are really sublime in asserting sheer untroubled happiness over the still sad music of humanity (and is that Debbie Reynolds with Gene Kelly? She done good)

Also I grew up with the Dick van Dyke show (with Mary Tyler Moore) and the Odd Couple (Johnny and I are Spiffy and Fleabag – take your pick as to which one is which – probably varies according to the occasion!)

I think many of the songs in ‘The Great American Song Book’ are sublime too – a special favourite is Ella Fitzgerald singing ‘Moonlight in Vermont’.

Speaking of show songs – doesn’t; Cindy live near the Black Hills of Dakota. Hmmm I believe she does and that gives me an idea –

Well you see the last time we had a meeting of the London Brigade two miscreants – who I shall not name but the photographic evidence is available on site – turned togged out all schismatically in Ramones T shirts. Now after this act of severe provocation, next time I intend to turn up in my ‘Polly Rocks’ T- shirt. I wonder if any others will follow me – which way will Al, James, Jael and Paul jump? But whatever happens there’s gonna be one huge great row over a matter of great theological import. I’d ask you to come and sort it out Kate but don’t want to test you too far too soon. No we need a moderator to sort this one. So since our Cindy lives near the Black Hills we’ll just have to beam her in by satellite firing shots in the air and singing ‘The Deadwood Stage’ –

Beautiful sky
Wonderful day… :laughing:

#112

Yep, that’s Debbie Reynolds – She was only nineteen, I think, and everyone’s feet were literally bleeding by the end of the song! So they definitely done good.:slight_smile:

We watch The Mary Tyler Moore Show quite often, as well. (We have a channel that specifically plays all the old shows, and I’ve learned to like most of them.) Hmmm… Between you two, I’m not sure who would Felix and who would be Oscar… Someday, if I get the chance to judge in person, I will let you know! :laughing:

#113

A final Kirsty video - a pastiche of a Phil Spectre song in which Kirsty gives hope to all awkward feeling boys (bless her) :laughing:

youtube.com/watch?v=0teK0FheCrQ

Hey this thread beats hell fire and damnation any day - must be in the wrong business :confused:

Of course Spiffy and Fleabag were the cartoon characters :blush:

#114

Haha, great song! I’ll pledge as a Kristy fan.:slight_smile:

Whoops! :laughing: I never saw that cartoon (gotta remember I’m a youngin’ :slight_smile: ) so I figured you had given nicknames to Felix and Oscar. Either way, someday, at the risk of being kicked out of London, I’ll deem once and for all who is Spiffy and who is Fleabag between you and Johnny. :laughing:

#115

‘Kirsty Rocks!’ is cool by me Kate - and Johnny and I can agree on this one too. So I expect the London Brigade to unite around ‘Kirsty Rocks!’ then with our Kate as an objective judge in the case. I may be an old fuddy duddy but I’m not schismatical when push comes to shove :laughing:

I dub you our Solomon in this great matter :laughing:

youtube.com/watch?v=z-5yQcRh5R0

#116

Just Skype me in overseas, and I’ll serve as the great Solomon over the London Brigade. :laughing:

(Of course, naming me ‘Solomon’ in anything – much less music! – is a pretty risky idea. But I’ll do my best. :laughing: )

#117

I’ve just heard from James. He’s my playing ball - he wants to wear a Marduk t-shirt. Och well perhaps we’ll just have to be individuals which is as Polly said we should in the first place :laughing: So boys and girls - whatever music you like and however you construe musical history - that’s cool by me, IN Christ there is neither Mod nor Rockers, Punk nor Hippy etc…

#118

… Nor musically illiterate plonker? (That’s me! :smiley: )

#119

…Neither musically literate nor musically illiterate (oops that was an oversight). And James was only joking about the Marduk T-shirts (whatever they are :laughing: (. I haven’t’ got any T-shirts. I lost interest in being in the know about popular music at the grand old age of twenty three when some of my old friends became ‘successful’ - in terms of five minutes of fame - and I wasn’t really impressed about how it affected them. ‘Yabba yabba yab boring boredom’ as Poly so wisely wrote in ‘I am a cliché’ (and her first sax player Lora Logic was /is a very nice girl too):lol:

#120

So James has returned? :slight_smile: If you’re reading this, James, welcome back!