The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What exactly does "dead" mean, scripturàlly?

Theology Biblical Theology
#21

It has been said, that the man Jesus dies but the eternal son dose not at Christ’s crucifixion…when Stephen is stoned in
Acts 7 :59 he calls on the lord Jesus Christ to receive [HIS] spirit. When Christ dies he cries out Father into your hands I commit [MY] spirit Luke 23:46… God is spirit and (IF) the son is of the same eternal spirit as The God, then what spirit is Christ/ the son of God placing in to God the Fathers hands at death ? for the father and son are of the same Eternal/ immortal spirit and nothing ever changes because the son cannot die. I fail to see how Christ was put to death in the flesh and [made] alive in the spirit, when he has always been alive in the spirit as a form of God who is spirit. Hmmmm confusing stuff ! … Maybe …just maybe, Christ actually did die in it’s entirety [ie] conscious of nothing, Until his glorious resurrection, being brought back from the DEAD!! brought back to life by his father and God. Anything less than total death, is no death at all.

Just my opinion.

#22

I think the answer depends on one’s anthropology. Biblical anthropology indicates ‘man’ to be a body, a soul, and a spirit.
Body only = corpse.
Soul - ‘us’, our consciousness, mind, feelings
Spirit - that function of our soul that can relate to God.

‘Spirit’ is dead without God making it alive. Very clear teaching of Paul. This is another reason why I cannot get all excited over full preterist teaching - nothing in scripture that I can find states that Christ’s work make everyone ‘alive to God’ right now - mankind still needs the ongoing ministrations of the Lord through his Spirit - iow, mankind is ‘dead to God’ spiritually until the new birth.

#23

Blimey Dave you took my like back as quick as you gave it :wink: … just kidding.

Do you believe there is any existence of man / women after death, out side of the
resurrection Hope ?

#24

? I didn’t take a ‘like’ away, Benjamin. I like ‘likes’ :slight_smile:
I don’t have any particular insight into the question. I tend to think that the ‘paradise’ Jesus promised to the thief on the cross meant that THAT day the thief would be in paradise.
As for after death existence - no, I don’t think it is something inherent in us that allows us to continue on. We must be resurrected, just like Jesus.
What do you think?

#25

I’m not trying to insult your intelligence
With my post. I know a man of your learning has heard all this before. This is what I think.

Greek/Pneuma/ spirit :-Meaning,

1/. [a] breath of nostrils or mouth.
[b] the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
[c] the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
[d] the soul.

2/. [a] a spirit higher than man but lower thanGod [ie] an angel
[b] used of demons, or evil spirits, who
were conceived as inhabiting the bodies
of men.
[c] the spiritual nature of Christ, higher
than the highest angels,the divine nature of Christ.

The way I see it, is we have two choices as to what spirit/ pneuma Stephen gives up via the above definitions. Either Stephen possess the breath of life, which brings to life mans affection, emotion, desire, etc Or Stephen was some form of spirit like that of an angel etc… enveloped in flesh. personally I’m going to go with the Genesis account of mans creation.

Genesis 2:7 (NIV)
7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man [became] a living being.

Adam received the breath of life into his nostrils and Adam [became] a living soul.
Mankind’s breath, oxygenates the blood
That circulates the body giving life to the all tissue and organs [ie] the whole body/soul/ being etc …And the life of the soul is [in] the blood [not] a self existent spirit being,like that of an angel wrapped in flesh.

Hebrew/Neshamah/ breath:- Meaning.
Outline of Biblical Usage

  1. breath, spirit
  2. breath [of God]
  3. breath [of man]
  4. every breathing thing/ including animals
  5. spirit [of man]

Stephen saw the glory of heaven, then he
he [FELL ASLEEP.] Sleep is a metaphor for death through out the bible [ie] Jhon 11:11-14. :—— I think we must be resurrected Like Christ. At the resurrection, I believe we will be flesh and bone, with out blood coursing through out veins for life. We to will die and be made alive in the spirit.

Just my thoughts.

#26

You cannot insult my intelligence - it’s not that large a target lol - don’t worry about that. I was actually wanting to know your thoughts since I don’t have much clarity on the ‘after’ life. It’s still a mystery to me on many fronts.

Pretty much mine also…:slight_smile:

#27

Neither do I, I just try to bop through Gods instruction manual as best as I can. As they say, “it will all come out in the wash sooner or later”

1 Like
#28

My belief is that when a person dies, he really dies. That is, he no longer exists. And unless there is a future resurrection when he is made alive again, he will remain dead.

I believe this to be the case with Jesus also. But the Father raised Him to life again on the 3rd day after His death.

It isn’t merely a matter of raising bodies and implanting their “souls” back into their raised bodies.
Rather, it’s a matter of raising the whole person, just as he was before his death.

By the way, the Greek word that is translated as “soul” in many versions, actually means “self.”

3 Likes