The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What if I have a dream about eternal torment?

Should I believe in it?

“Much dreaming and many words are meaningless. Therefore fear God.”

What is the word here for “dream”? I´m really scared these days about this issue. The dreams are God messages?

in short, no. such dreams would be fueled by you going over and over the issue in your mind.

i really don’t believe if God sent a dream that there would be any doubt in your mind. and given my own experiences (limited as they are) with messages from the Divine, they would not focus on judgement at all, but on telling you how very loved you are, and how you can rely on God, and that there is nothing but joy and peace in store for you if you are able to allow yourself to take it on board. if this is a real issue for you, you may want to get some counselling or something, or seeing if there are some underlying problems like depression, anxiety, etc. sometimes physical/mental issues can get in the way of hearing God’s real message of grace and acceptance. but rest assured that you ARE accepted, that God sees you as you will be, and forgives you for what you are. this is true for everyone, and as it’s true, there can be no fear of condemnation and eternal punishment

Or your sub-conscious doing somersaults?

I believe in eternal hell, God’s refining fire, the place we come to our senses and leave our sins behind. We don’t have to wait for death to experience it.

I also believe God enters hell with us, suffering silently with us. “Where can I flee from your presence?” He doesn’t deserve it, but he shares our pain. His empathy is absolute. He doesn’t guess our suffering. He feels it, the collected anguish of all humanity through all the ages. He’s nailed to our cross, with us and for us. We who are being crucified in our own personal hell are blessed precisely because God is being crucified with us. “Blessed are those who mourn”, because God mourns with us. He doesn’t come down from this cross, nor does he save us who are being crucified with him. All he gives is the comfort of shared suffering, and the promise of Paradise. One day soon, He will transform hell into heaven.

The other night I dreamt I was lying on a sunbed on my yacht, moored at Barbados, being served chilled Cristal champagne by Eva Green in a micro-bikini. Then I woke up. :smiley:

Sometimes a dream is just a dream, and our subconscious plays strange tricks on us. God would never ever torment one of His precious children as you fear. Please don’t worry.

All the best

Johnny

Thanks for the answers. There are people that say that when God talk about important issues in dreams, it´s a message. I don´t find nothing in the bible that says that, but it´s true that God talk people in dreams in ancient times. If someone can say me what bible say about dreams, I i should believe in it or not, I will be very grateful.

the Bible has a handful of examples of dreams that are messages. if you consider that each of the people in the Bible would have dreamed most nights, and remembered an average number of dreams, you’d see that the dreams that contain messages are in the tiniest minority of dreams the people would have had. some had a specific, unavoidable calling as well, so there would have been no doubt at all.

Dreams can be from God, your subconscious, or even other spiritual forces. Your dreams concerning Hell are likely connected to your subconscious. And dreams, like apocalyptic literature or parables, are rarely meant to be taken literally, but sometimes do have meaning, even the ones from our subconscious, I think.

You dreaming about Hell would most likely, imo, show that this is something you are mulling over in your subconscious, and it could very well be a revelation of what Paul calls “this present evil age”, Gal. 1.4. In this present evil age people are in bondage to sin and death, consumed by the fires of evil from within and without, slaves of unrighteousness, and many people are even tormented/oppressed/possessed by demonic spirits - this Present Evil Age. A revelation of this present evil age in dream or vision would likely, I think, be pictured much like, if not exactly like, the common pictures of Hell today.

Interpretation of dreams is a special variation of the gift of prophecy. It’s rather like speaking in tongues: some people can do that and some people can interpret but they aren’t always the same person.

If something happens in a dream and it comes literally true in a surprising way, that would be one sign that the dream was specially inspired and should be attended to. Trained dreamers can often tell from experience whether they’re having a mystical dream or not, too. But it’s a specially miraculous gift like healing. Just because someone has a dream about an important topic, that doesn’t mean they’re having an inspired dream; and even if they have an inspired dream they may not be given authority to interpret it correctly.

(I say this as someone who dreams rather stressfully 8 to 10 hours a night: I have a LOT of experience with lucid dreaming, experience that frankly I wish I didn’t have. But I know from experience that even lucid dreaming isn’t prophetic dreaming. I also know from experience what prophetic dreaming feels like, and I have some personal experience with the uncertainties and surprises in trying to deal with them. I don’t like to talk about it much, though: I was given some dreams for several related purposes, which seem to have ended for now and I haven’t had any such dreams since the main purpose was accomplished. I don’t want people thinking I have prophetic authority either: the gift served its purposes and that’s it. If God uses me again someday that way, I guess that’s okay – I can’t say I enjoyed it usually, in fact it was the most horrific suffering I’ve had in my life so far, kind of like having stigmata. A noble honor but… :open_mouth: I can’t say I’m in any special hurry for God to use me again that way either. I’m certainly not going to complain if He doesn’t. But the reason was entirely worth it. :slight_smile: )

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is, try not to worry about it. A person can literally go crazy trying to look for, and finding, coincidental connections to dreams that were never intended by God to be taken as prophetic. I’m inclined to think God doesn’t even send dreams (unless they’re healing dreams) to people who have mental problems.

How do you know your dream about torment is about “eternal torment”?

Your dream didn’t last eternally, and so how do you know the torment about which you dreamed would last eternally?

A couple of nights ago I dreamed that I was on a Japanese bullet train, standing next to the emperor of Japan, who was fighting aliens with his ceremonial sword.

I think the message of this was that I shouldn’t eat cheese while listening to a CD of “The Mikado” just before going to bed.

Don’t worry, my dream didn’t happen either.

In the dream someone says that the wicked will go to a river of fire and they will be preserved here.

Well, I guess the implied feeling of the dream must have seemed hopeless for them, but the scriptures say we should hope to be baptized by Christ in spirit even/and fire (compared to the mere river Jordan water which John was baptising with)! We aren’t supposed to come out from being suffused by the Holy Spirit, we’re supposed to be salted with the fire, so that we may have peace with one another.

(In my novels a demon has taught a people that they are supposed to fight against the river of fire in death, defiantly drinking the fire, and their military culture makes that an important part of their courage in battle; but the elders secretly tend to believe that the river should not be fought against, and that the secret name of the people, the Pecari, is connected to Pechora, their name for the river of fire.)

Jason, where are the sequels? I haven’t been able to find them . . . .

Not released yet. :slight_smile:

So have you finished CoJ yet?

Oh yeah – I read it all through. (Thanks for the synopsis; it really helped.) :slight_smile:

If you want a proof reader and/or critique/opinion/etc. for the one you’re working on now, I’m available. :wink: I’d love to get a look at it.

“The wicked shall be turned into hell” - Psalm 9
“The prostitutes full of wickedness” - Leviticus 19

Might be all the prostitutes and fornicators that reside in hell.

Seal of Jezebel The Whore. Israel Museum
formerthings.com/jezebel.htm

"I heard a woman’s voice from one of the prison chambers in hell. She cried out to me. “Before I came here I was a prostitute. You are lost in this place of torment. There is no way out of here” - Mary K. Baxter: A Divine Revelation of Hell

“The harlot’s pathways lead straight to hell. Down to the CHAMBERS of death” - Proverbs 7

“I saw many people in CHAMBERS screaming in torment” - Tamara Laroux

youtube.com/watch?v=HGQDkCi-OIY

What is the rule we should use to discern the value of Mary K. Baxter and Tamara Theroux? What make their writings in any way authoritative? Are their visions ‘biblical’? Should visionaries become celebrities? :slight_smile:

Sopho – just wanted to say something here. I have no doubt that people can sometimes have dreams of a certain authority which can communicate some kind of truth to them. However, most of our dreams seem to be sorting through what we have been anxious about the day before – often in symbolic disguise -and a lot of research suggests this helps us to deal with our anxieties. So someone who is anxious about hell is going to dream about it. Likewise a person who has become anxious about public shame is going to dream they are walking down the road naked with people laughing at them (quite a common dream I understand). These dreams do not verify anything objective – they simply verify what a given person is anxious about.

Regarding NDE’s – on the whole people who have experience these of whatever religious background or none report a positive experience – of moving towards the light and being embraced in unconditional love. It is impossible to ground any objective knowledge of the world to come in NDEs – but they do appear to have a self authenticating quality to those who have experienced them.

Regarding Tamara Laroux – mentioned above. She reported an NDE after trying to kill herself through shooting herself in the chest, where she was give a vision of hell and the conscious torment of the damned. There is no reason why her NDE should be respected more than the many others of a positive kind – perhaps NDE’s tell us more about a person than about the world to come.

Mother Julian of Norwich the universalist had a series of NDEs in which she learned that ‘All shall be well.’. and that God is not wrathful. Now I guess there is no reason why anyone should credit these NDEs than Tamarar Laroux. But I will say that Julian spent her whole life humbly meditating on her visions before their meaning became apparent to her as she gave counsel to her fellow Christians during the terrible yeas of the Black Death. By way of contrast Tamra Laroux has become an instant and very glamorous celebrity and her original sponsor Pat Robinson is no stranger to credulity. He warns against false prophets. Before the last US election he went on record to say that Jesus had personally told him that Mitt Romney would win the election.

Rest you merry

Dick

Mary Baxter and the like are exposed here in great detail:

thepathoftruth.com/falseteachers/#list

thepathoftruth.com/falseteac … baxter.htm

Did Mary K. Baxter get out of there? :wink: