What is the Gospel & a Christian


#1

What is the basic Gospel & what is a Christian? Do these brothers have it right?

John Piper
desiringgod.org/topics/the-gospel
youtube.com/watch?v=3psJWtT68WE
youtube.com/watch?v=wTHHUfX0hV0

Andrew Wommack
awmi.net/reading/teaching-ar … christian/
awmi.net/reading/teaching-ar … ace_power/
awmi.net/reading/teaching-ar … pel_peace/
awmi.net/audio/audio-teachin … ospelI.mp3

Joseph Prince - Are You Hearing The True Gospel? - 23 Sep 2012
youtube.com/watch?v=razh2q6jsWs


#2

What do YOU think, origen?


#3

They seem, more or less, “spot on”. From what i’ve listened to & read so far. Of the posted listings.


#4

Okay, can you summarize?


#5

Joseph Prince is a money hungry false teacher :wink:


#6

That’s been my impression of him in the little I’ve heard from him, Alexander. (Which is why I’ve heard little of him–sometimes things are just so obvious–or at least it seems so to me–that it’s difficult to justify spending more time.)


#7

I’m not really sure what point Origen is trying to make here. I watched and listened to the Joseph Prince clip. He took up six or seven minutes saying the same thing over and over again, without really saying anything very substantial. I presume he was trying to counter what some other (unnamed) TV preachers had said but otherwise I have no idea what provoked his mini sermon on the meaning of grace and the gospel. I found no fault with what he did say.

I don’t know the man at all. Perhaps he is humble, sincere and gracious, but he comes across differently. There is an old saying: “Clothes make the man”. Commentary: “What one wears is taken by others as an essential signal of status. The proverb is recorded in English from the early 15th century, but an earlier saying in classical Greek is, ‘the man is his clothing.’” Do the clothes he wears and his coiffure tell us anything about him?

I guess I had best not judge him. “Judge not, that you be not judged”.


#8

There are Reverends - still active - that are MUCH WORSE than Joseph Prince. :laughing:

By the way. This Wiki article on Price, says this about his salary at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Prince:

Here are the Calvinist Got Questions insights - into Hyper-Grace,…which is what Joseph Price - apparently teaches:

What is hyper-grace?

Oh, Yes. Now for an example of someone much worse, IMHO. :laughing:


#9

But…but…Randy - he has a beautiful white Dove as a symbol!! :laughing:


#10

But…but…Randy - he has a beautiful white Dove as a symbol!! :laughing:

But…but what about “When Doves Cry” by Prince???


#11

Prince is known as a “grace teacher.” Of course, Paul referred to the gospeI as, the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24). I have benefited immeasurably from the teachings of Joseph Prince.

I daily enjoy two different email devotionals from him. And his video teachings are freely available on the internet, with each Sunday sermon normally split into 3 parts of around twenty minutes each.

Prince’s emphasis is on revealing Jesus and receiving all the benefits of his finished work:

Here are two quotes from his book, Unmerited Favor:

Sure, there are false teachers whose motive is to separate fools from their money:

But I would argue that Prince is an honorable man of God, and a great teacher of the truth of grace.

Regarding TV preachers, we need to be careful ‘not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.’ We need to seek spiritual discernment, even that supernatural gift:

Note: Prince hasn’t received a salary from New Creation Church since 2009.

Blessings.


#12

I’ll let Scripture do that:

Tit.3:4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. 6 This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

1 Cor.15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Rom.10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

2 Cor.5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Eph.2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom.3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


#13

Well we know that JP isn’t a universalist - youtube.com/watch?v=fJkBMNlvmZ0


#14

I dunno. I don’t know a lot about Prince and I hesitate to judge. That said, the videos of him prancing around in princely garb kind of turn me off. He is in Singapore though, so maybe it’s a cultural thing. Maybe that’s appropriate attire for a public appearance in Singapore. We in the west are used to dark, three-piece suits for men of all incomes (except with the churches who expect their pastors to show up in more casual attire–not uncommon in the USA.) I suppose you could make a sin of that, too–pride in one’s humbleness and all that. Anyway, the suits might be anywhere from cheap Penny’s special deals to thousands of dollars worth–you wouldn’t know on camera.

Honestly I try to give people a fair chance–the benefit of a doubt. This guy turns me off right out of the gate. Maybe I’m wrong.


#15

Same old heresy hunting behavior… “I don’t like him”, “He seems arrogant”, “He is too rich”, “He doesn’t wear the right clothing”… I suppose you will denigrate the pope? or the former high priest’s of Judaism for their beautiful attire? Or the Eastern Orthodox Bling? :open_mouth:


#16

Gabe, did you even read what I said? I wasn’t being sarcastic. I’m genuinely conflicted and I was speaking honestly from my heart. I don’t want to judge the man wrongly, yet my first reaction to him is not positive. Maybe I’m wrong. Did I call him a heretic? That would be silly. Heretic is a word without significance, imo. I am a heretic because I believe God saves all. On what basis would I call Joseph Prince a heretic? He at least believes in ECT. He’s closer to the accepted doctrines of the church than I am.

Let me just say that you’re not helping me come to a resolution on this matter with your sarcasm. You may be right. Every time I see someone doing exceedingly well for themselves from the monies they receive from their ministry business, it worries me. Some of these people really resonate with me, doctrinally speaking. Some of them dress like me, act like me (at least as far as I know), and even look more or less like me. Some of them don’t. It still worries me. I’m not sure what to make of it. I know they need to live and support their families. I know there are various levels of ‘doing well’ financially, and that to them, and in their circle of acquaintances and friends, their level of financial success is often not unusual. I don’t have a problem with people in secular business making money. I kind of cringe, though, when people make what looks to me like a LOT of money off the gospel. Please do explain to me why I’m wrong. I’m not being sarcastic. If you can straighten this out for me I’ll be very grateful. You’re not the first person I’ve asked about this. Most of them (well all of them so far) are just as conflicted as I am and haven’t been able to help me.


#17

Yes, I did. Did you notice I didn’t quote you? From my years of forum use, if you are talking directly to someone, you either call them out by name (their handle) or quote their post, or a portion of it. While you did mention his clothing, you also gave yourself an out by saying it could have been a cultural thing.

FYI - Heresy isn’t defined innately from a tethered stationary position. Search around the web and put in ANY popular preacher and then type in “heretic” after it, and guess what? You will find some sect calling out another sect and accusing them of heresy. It is quite ridiculous. Arminians are heretics to Calvinists and Calvinists are heretics to Arminians. Unitarians (like oneness, pentecostals, mormons, etc…) considered the Trinity heresey and the Trinitiarians largely considered non-triniarians as heretics. You see? There isn’t just point where it is claim from a stationary vantage point. Everyone is a heretic to everyone else and that is the problem I have.


#18

Sorry, Gabe. I shouldn’t have assumed you were talking to me just because your post followed mine. There were plenty of other posts you may have been addressing. As for ‘heretic,’ I always think it’s easiest to go by the dictionary definition. If words have no meaning, then it’s really hard to figure out what we’re even talking about–but I get what you’re saying. People are very free with the “HERETIC” accusation.

So do you have an answer for me? Or maybe some thoughts on the subject?


#19

My thoughts are that none of us know exactly what brand of Christianity is correct, or that even Christianity itself is correct. It might be, but due the rich diverse nature that the reformation gave us, it is pretty hard to pin down exactly what a Christian is that will satisfy everyone. This sort of ties in with your dictionary definition of heresy. Meaning, we should be able to use the dictionary’s definition, but we can’t, because the reformation split roughly 50% of the nominal Christians into a thousands of sects, each claiming they have it right. In a way, humanism entered into Christianity with the reformation, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I suppose a Christian to me would be one who claims to be one. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe C.S. Lewis talked about this, but I can’t quite remember what it was.

One thing is for sure to me, the gospel of Christian Universalism is beautiful. In, that all will eventually be one with God and in eternal bliss.


#20

‘the man is his clothing.’" Do the clothes he wears and his coiffure tell us anything about him?

Sometimes he wears jeans and sometimes he dresses up, it may depend where he is at that moment. I see him on TV a lot and have several of his CDs so I do like him but I know he emphasizes grace so I process that in when I listen to him. Just like when you listen to Joel Osteen you know he will emphasize a particular aspect of God.