To be resurrected is to be born again. Everyone is resurrected and born again into the kingdom which is not of this world. There’s only one Lord.
Don’t confuse the figurative for the actual.
Ran
you said: To be resurrected is to be born again. Everyone is resurrected and born again into the kingdom which is not of this world. There’s only one Lord.
Aaron: I don’t know how more clearer I can be… One last time, or I’m finished talking with someone who refuses to support his erroneous comments with scripture. 1) Where in the Word of God does it say “To be resurrected is to be born again”? 2) Where in the Word of God does it say “Everyone is resurrected and born again into the kingdom which is not of this world”?
Support your erroneous comments with scripture, or this conversation is over, Ran.
God bless,
Aaron
“I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” He’s talking about the resurrection here. Now, figuratively, He’s talking about one’s spirit - though that is a half-blind, veiled ‘seeing’ since one has not actually died or actually been resurrected.
Ran
Sigh…good talking to you, Ran. I will leave you with this… Jesus’ blood deals with the act of the sins of the world, it also deals with the sin nature that produces that sin… The act of sin has been dealt with, now the sin nature that produced the sin must be dealt with, and the sin nature can only be changed by accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior…when you do this your sin nature is cleansed, and replaced with the nature and life of God ( Rom 2:29;Eph 4:24)…it comes no other way, my friend.
God bless,
Aaron
I searched for ‘sin nature’ in the NT - the phrase does not exist and is never used. It’s not a biblical term.
Ran
Sigh…oh Ran, get over yourself…sinful nature is a descriptive word for our spirtual dead nature…( the nature where sin is a byproduct) sinful nature and spiritual dead nature are the same thing, my friend. The word Trinity is not in the bible, but we know it is a descriptive word for the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit.
God bless,
Aaron
This is getting off-track from the opening post.
Hi Bobx3,
Reading it from v. 14 through to 21, Bob, doesn’t Paul explain himself sufficiently? Don’t vv. 19-20 unpack what Paul’s referring to at the end of v. 18 by “the ministry of reconciliation”? It’s just God in us making his appeal through us to others, just like you said (“…so it seems the ministry of reconciliation is simply participating with God in getting this Good News out”).
Seems to me that something was done and accomplished in Christ that incorporates (or touches, or affects) all people independently of their response of faith. That much is why there even IS a message to proclaim to the unbelieving. At the same time, people come into the experience and enjoyment of God in their lives only when they believe. Some stress the former to the exclusion of the latter and some the latter to the exclusion of the former. No doubt Col, as you pointed out, speaks of the entire cosmos as “reconciled” in Christ. At the same time, no doubt Paul says God is now in us making his appeal to folks that they “Be reconciled!”).
I hold them in perfect balance of course, and for only $19.95 I will send you a CD of my teaching on this matter. ;o)
I was watching Tyron Powers in a Swashbuckler last night. He and his men were fighting British ships because Britain was at war with them (or some country; can’t remember). Then an ambassador of England arrived and announced, “King George is no longer King and the war is over. The new King has made peace. So you don’t have to fight any more.” It’s not a perfect analogy, but it at least helps us say how it is that something hard core and firm is accomplished by the King, who “makes peace.” Then this peace is announced by ambassadors. But people still have to choose to embrace the new relationship and make it their own. Sadly, too many keep fighting.
Tom
Yes Tom!
That is very much the sort of thing I was hoping to get to…
Something incredibly important happened at that Cross and we – WE!! – are invited to join in the execution of that plan somehow…
I think we do great disservice to the great depth and complexity of the New Testaments when we fail to appreciate the vast array of images it uses to convey the grandeur of precisely what the Christ accomplished at the Cross! To accept the invitation – the challenge – of the ministry of reconciliation is to join in the triumph of the very Christ Himself!
We, as those who grasp the enormity of the event, are welcomed into the throng who have the privilege to SHARE this good news! This has nothing at all to do with negotiating our OWN salvation (as some here imagine; see Aaron37??) but remains focussed on the great ACT of the Christ at the Cross.
Only fools would reject this great sacrifice at the Cross; and torturing fools forever solves nothing.
No, fools (all of us in some sense) are reconciled back to the Father. That’s the plan. The basis for reconciliation is now history; all we do is join that history with the now risen Christ!
TotalVictory
Bobx3
Well put. 'Father forgive them, they’re fools." (and don’t know what they are doing like any fool.) Universalism kinda hangs on that prayer being answered - but given the pray-er, how could it not?
What you seem not to grasp Is God honors faith and choices. He will not force anyone to choose Him.He has created man with the ability to choose. He has given the world the gospel of grace…now man must tap into this grace by faith or do nothing and be separated from God forever. …choose Life or choose Death. its just that simple. Show me in the Word of God where this is contradicted without lifting verses out of context. ( the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning.)
You were just shown. “Father, forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.”
Were they forgiven? Yes.
Via who’s faith? Christ’s.
How did they 'tap into that grace?" By hammering nails.
Nice post Tom!
It came to mind that we should indeed be preaching “Peace!” to the world. Usually, Christianity is preaching “war!”
Blessings,
brian
Also - If I forgive someone for sinning against me (in the manner of the Lord’s Prayer) - and that person dies an unrepentant sinner, does that mean that they get punished for the sin that they died unrepentant of but that I forgave them for?
Seems in many Christologies God gets to extract double punishment for one crime (sort of a 2 for 1 special offer). Jesus pays on the cross and then the unrepentant sinner pays post mortem.
I also note in ET theologies there is one sin that Christ’s sacrifice doesn’t cover and that’s the sin of unbelief at death.
Jeff, not only is God love but he also is just. Jesus’ death makes provision for the forgiveness of all sins, but it doesn’t enact that forgiveness until sinners surrender in faith to God. That makes it entirely reasonable state that Christ died for all types of sins, including the sin of unbelief, but that those who persist in unbelief have not received the pardon that is yet possible for them.
If I had 10 dollars in my hand and told you I wanted to give it to you…what would yo do? Would you believe me and take the money or not believe it (unbelief) and not receive it? The same with God’s grace. God will not violate your will to believe or not to believe…God honors your faith and gives you the gift of salvation out of his grace or God will honor your unbelief and give you what you ask for…separation from him both in this world and the world to come. Totally just. The decision is yours.
No,
You have 10 dollars which you give straight to the person to whom I owe 10 dollars - you don’t stand there waiting for me to take it. The only thing I have to do is wake up to the fact that you have paid my debt - the debt is already paid. Otherwise the phrases ‘takes away the sin of the world’ and ‘Jesus has already paid the price at Calvary’ have no meaning - The kinsman redeemer in Israel paid the money to the man who had his kinsman in bondage - not to his kinsman himself - even if the bondsman never made use of his redeemer he was set free in the year of Jubilee.
There is only one difference between you and me and anyone else in the world and that is which order we come to life in Christ. I think you’ll be like the sulky elder son in the prodigal parable when you realise that your early awakening to salvation is your ticket to the job of introducing everyone else to the fringe benefits of early adoption of salvation - both now and for a long time into the future until the kingdom is delivered complete (not incomplete as you seem to think) to the Father who becomes all in all - who makes all things (not some things) new.
But feel free to dismiss everything I say because I’m an unrepentant, lost, sick sinner and you’re a righteous, well and found man - who was it Jesus came to seek - remind me?
We agree that we all come to life in Christ in order which we believe, but we disagree on how long you have to do this. I believe the time to receive God’s grace is in this lifetime only…no remedial punishment in hell to bring you to faith. I was once lost too, Jeff…but I chose to receive God’s grace 
A,
The lost sheep have to be found. And when they are found, Jesus himself brings them into the fold–He doesn’t let them decide not to come! LOL
Have you ever had animals, Aaron? I fenced a new area for mine in the last few weeks, and thought to rely on an electric fence to keep them in… Unfortuately it didn’t work quite as planned, since they’re not experienced with electric fencing… Which means they’ve broken out several times… grrr
You may not realize it, but it doesn’t work to just hold open the gate and call them… Actually it does sometimes for some… But most of the time they have to be chased down, caught, and led back. Or be driven back. And I’m certainly NOT going to just say “Oh well, I guess they don’t want to live with me…I’ll respect their free will and let them roam about the countryside and be eaten by coyotes and mountain lions and bears…”
Actually I did that with a rooster I didn’t really like… I respected his free will, and he’s not coming back now…
Sonia
Well done… how wonderful that you were clever enough to pick up the last piece of the puzzle and insert it into the slot all on your own without any help from big old God over there
The help was the gospel of grace that was preached ( Rom 10:17) and I chose to believe it.
God’s grace + my faith = grace through faith = salvation 