As for the last line, remember God created both good and evil (despite those who say otherwise). Not everything that comes from God is truth; he even sent an evil spirit to torment Saul.
Most people ignore me these days, and I am quite fine with that.
I’m not ignoring you and thank-you for your input 
agreed
Well, it does kind of look like you feel God doesn’t speak directly to individuals any longer, Stuart. Lots of people do believe that God doesn’t speak today except through His written word. It’s not an unusual viewpoint.
whether I do or don’t believe that, is irrelevant to the point of the argument as presented above
point taken 
Cindy I arrived at a position on the Charismatic/pentecostal take on these things a long time ago by seeking the truth and how I do that is to read as much as I could get my hands on , on the given topic , including but not limited to history, theology , main players and movements , specific doctrines ect after 90 plus books my mind is made up the evidence is indeed strong
[exactly the reason why I accept U.R.] but not just that , I was involved in the movement as a young Christian until I started to question it !
for me it’s not a question of IF he can but does he
for the record I believe GOD can and at times does speak to us through a variety of methods including the beauty of nature but as for ‘‘personal revelation’’ not only do I see a problem biblically with it but practically as well, for as my above question demonstrates , if one in the group insists they have received ‘‘a word from the Lord’’ yet it clashes with the revealed text ,
you then have a problem 
Stuart, who’s interpretation and which translation of the “revealed text”? I was given a personal revelation of UR. I then went and searched it out and found it to be true, but thats only if you disregard the vast majority of christians idea of the word aionos, and their view of God’s punishment.
Yep I do have a problem, or more accurately my ET friends have a problem with me. I clash with their revealed text. It says eternal torment after all, all those people for the past 2000 years (1800 more accurately) can’t be wrong right?
This goes into our discussion of idolatry on the other thread, the bible has become an idol, instead of following the living word. Yes some people are going to be wrong, and many believe they have gotten a word from the Lord, when in fact its just their mind playing tricks, or maybe its a lying spirit sent by God. I think that when that happens we need to be going to the living word also. And remember we can judge a tree by its fruit. Any movement that seeks to create division, strife, envy, build worldly wealth, setting men above other men, is a good start. (of course we get much of this from the written word, so now we’re back full circle)
Hey, Stuart
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at, but it sounds like you’ve seen at least a little bit of abuse in the charismatic/pentecostal churches. You’ll get no argument from me there. I’ve been in that scene too, and left it. There is a lot of abuse, though I’m sure there are also a lot of sincere people (even in the leadership) who love God and walk circumspectly. But there is also a lot of abuse.
The little balloons you use – the question marks and things – confuse me. I’m not sure what you mean by them, and I know you’re trying to communicate something with them, but just so you know, that’s not coming through for me. So if It seems to you like I’m not getting it, maybe that’s because your non-verbal cues aren’t conveying the meaning (to me) that you’re going for. Sorry about that – I’m trying.
I’m not sure what your mind is made up about, or what the evidence is that’s strong. Are you talking about the charismatic movement? If so, again, you’ll get no argument from me defending it. I know people who are godly men and women who still hold to it, but they’re no longer part of it either, so that just says to me that even if they mentally approve . . . well, they’ve removed themselves from it, and that speaks louder than words.
Just hazarding a guess, but it seems likely that you and I mean entirely different things when we speak of “personal revelation” (which I would call simply, hearing from God). Just to give you a little background, I do respect the word. I do a lot of memorization – not verses; chapters and books. I study the passage, look at the different translations, interlinears, Strongs and Vines definitions, and then take the version/s that seem to me most illuminating (they mostly do say the same things in different words) and write it all out, usually several times, and memorize it. I do all this because it’s the only way I can truly feel that I understand what’s being said, and because God uses these bits of knowledge of His word to speak back into my life.
Occasionally He’ll say something specific to me like “Slow down NOW” (I would have hit the huge calf on the other side of the hill if I hadn’t listened, so I’m glad we’re on two-way speaking terms), but usually it’s illumination of His word. It is possible to use an automobile as a weapon, to use it to aid in committing crime or immorality, to drive incompetently and hurt people – yet none of us feels that using automobiles is an unwise thing. Using them badly IS unwise. Hearing from God (or pretending to) can be used as a weapon, used as an aid in committing crime or immorality, used incompetently and cause harm to others, but learning to truly hear the voice of God is not an unwise thing. It is a wise thing to know the voice of the Shepherd.
I see someone else has also posted a comment, and I don’t want you to feel you’re being piled on in this. I don’t expect you (or anyone else) to accept everything or anything I say that I hear from God. It’s your job to judge everything anyone tells you – whether you should accept it or not – and absolutely, the ultimate yardstick is the rightly discerned written word.
Love you, Brother – in Him!
Cindy
I am one of those who definitely say otherwise Sending an evil spirit, or allowing obstructions to His wonderous light does not equate to creating evil (as though the absence of good is to be created). There may be a Jewish tradition of such a view, but I have difficulty seeing these claims in Christian scripture that strongly personified and polarized evil away from Yahweh the God of Light (even though Satan is not a competing god of darkness).
There is no untruth in the God of Light (1 John 1:5). Everything that comes from God, as expressed most perfectly in Yeshua, is truth (John 14:6). He will not tempt us with untruth (James 1:13).
I think you may be underestimating how societal norms, our evolving collective conscience and especially the age of reason have influenced our “objective standards”. People tend to see and pick out of complex holy books a set of standards which best suit their own conscience’s as well as current societal norms - and then attempt to show (sometimes elaborately) how those select standards clearly trump any conflicting standards contained in the same book.
I could give many many examples but don’t have the time right now. I’m sure anyone can fill in the blanks here if they take a thoughtful objective look at history and the Bible’s roll in it.
I should have elaborated far more on this and thought about it after I posted the response , I think most believers who have arrived at U.R. have done so through [lets say] having their minds illuminated 
I see a bit of a difference from that to
‘‘a word from the Lord’’ in the strictest form . *is that a bit clearer *
Yep I do have a problem, or more accurately my ET friends have a problem with me. I clash with their revealed text. It says eternal torment after all, all those people for the past 2000 years (1800 more accurately) can’t be wrong right?
your E.T. friends if they were truly open could well arrive at the same conclusion if they were to do an extremely careful study of the text among other things
a little bit of abuse , from the charismatic 
movement 
ok I’m sorry I couldn’t help myself Cindy I’ll try to limit the use of the faces
I understand the idea needs a degree of balance but it isn’t entirely without merit 
I kinda get what you are saying but none the less arriving at what is true requires an objective standard 
I’m not sure you can have a balance – I think you need to be radically absolute for God to be meaningfully omnibenevolent and ontologically love ( – I’m not entirely sure if I’m using “ontologically” in the right sense). Perhaps our definition of evil is different? I do agree that God causes punishment (occasionally it’s rather brutal – though I think many of these accounts are either concessions, metaphorical or misheard), but I don’t think chastisement can be considered “evil”. Would you be able to expound your view on God being part evil and its biblical/philosophical merit?
Stuart when I say UR was revealed to me, I mean in a vision (thats the best way I could explain it). I’ve never had another experience like it in my life. It was quite amazing, and I kind of went into a depression a little while after because I thought I was going to keep having those experiences 
I don’t know what else you would call a word from the Lord. There was an actual word in my inner mind that I can still sort of make out, it wasn’t written in a language I’ve seen before, but I understood it.
I absolutely believe in an objective eternal transcendent standard BUT I also absolutely believe that it is not the bible per se’. As humans we want a magic physical object to place our hands around and say “this is perfect” - but the reality (AISI) is that the perfection comes from within and is not in an outward temple or book or anything else outside of our inner “higher” being. Think of the outward as triggers of an inner awakening - nothing more, nothing less.
One example: (Ps. 137:8-9) King David says in the Bible (of the enemy heathen) “Happy are those who the one who pays you back for what you have done to us - who smashes your babies upon the stones”.
Now - the bottom line is this: Is it good to dash heathen babies to pieces on rocks? Would you do it? Can you picture Jesus going out and personally picking up a Roman baby (the Romans being David’s contemporary oppressing heathen equivalent) by the feet and bashing it’s head to a dead bloody nub? Of course you can’t, and for good reason. David’s rant was an intense (and humanly justifiable) rant as those heathen did unspeakable things to Israeli men women and Children YET we recognize today that such retaliation is NOT the Spirit of Christ even though it is purported that David was speaking from the Spirit of Christ. I say - he was (obviously) not.
So - your God given conscience and societal norms and what Jesus is purported to have said in that same “book” (actually a collection of separate writings) AND current human laws all contradict what some want to see as an objective written moral standard.
Selah?
“GOD” in the traditional, literal omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent sense indeed MUST be responsible for all that which occurs. Our human understanding of good verses evil all comes from the metaphoric forbidden fruit and so is (mostly) seen through the fallen lens/perception.
For our practical purposes now (and for sanity’s sake) we must separate the “good” Father from all “evil”. Yet doing so is the fruit of the forbidden tree. So… how do we get past this?
I’m a bit confused! A long work day + late in the evening + one schooner = spinning wheel of death / ever-revolving hourglass of the mind. Are you saying that we have not “fallen” from a condition as “perfect” automata? I only have a crude understanding of the forbidden fruit to be honest, could you share your view? I’m sensing this could be a big tangent… But I do agree that there is something of Yahweh being held to account throughout the Hebrew scriptures – of being held responsible to His own faithfulness to Man. But then, I don’t believe Yahweh bears the religious image of an Omnipotent Master. Yahweh has a self-limited omnipotence and is foremost the meek servant of Man, not out of fancy, inferiority or inadequacy, but because anything else contradicts his very being.
Agreed firstborn888, glad to see you still around! Those who knew me both in my ET and early UR days, know that I am completely devoted to the Father and my Savior Jesus Christ for setting me free from the religion that tries to steal His Children. I am passionate to a fault in the pursuit of the Word of God and the Truth it reveals, hence my pseudonym. As the years go on, the more I know the more I realize I was way off. I see myself even in the height of knowledge, just a baby in understanding and slowly it is making sense.
Who is the author of evil, is one of the subjects that made me realize, man is too fragile to embrace a simple truth. From God, all things are created and through Him they come to be.
This is true, and we have at least one example in scripture to prove it. This is precisely what Rahab did in hiding the Israelite spies, even to the point of misleading the city guards, sending them on a wild goose chase!
There are clearly some God-ordained circumstances in which it is Ok to lie!
Indeed there is, in fact there is no law against lying even within the Law.
Ooh, it sounds like you’ve done some research on this Craig… Can you enlighten as to what the difference is (if I’m on the right track here) between bearing false witness and lying?
Ordinance does not universally mean “commanded” or “created”. It means, generally speaking, “ordered underneath” in the sense of arranging it after its existence. I know of no instances in scripture where Yahweh either commands or creates lies. Yahweh is a God of Truth, and He does not tempt us to lie.
Rahab responded to a difficult situation in what she honestly felt was the best way. Though she had heard of Yahweh’s conquests (Joshua 2:9-11), ancient Caananites did not know Torah and its explicit commandment to “not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16). And nor did Yeshua allow untruth, but heightened it by forbidding the swearing of oaths where one may be compelled to speak untruth (Matthew 5:33-37; James 5:12), and extended our understanding of neighbour to include even our enemies (Luke 10:25-37). The truth in Yeshua is the foundation of Yeshuan life, abandoning truthfullness in order to further one’s own interests or the interests of those we favour, comes dangerously close to denying the existence and Lordship of Yeshua.
Rahab was rewarded for her faith in Yahweh and its expression in her hospitality to the Hebrew spies (Hebrews 11; James 2:25), not her false testimony. This story should not be used as license for lying. 