The Evangelical Universalist Forum

When God “lets us go” what happens??

All:

I’ll try to briefly state my question, then elaborate and comment on why this question intrigues and puzzles me…

Has anyone here done a study (or know of such a study) on what it means for God to “let us go” and/or “give us up”?
What are your understandings of this expression? Have we talked about it here before?

God’s persistent pursuit of His wayward children is of course a major theme of scripture. However, we also find language about God eventually “letting us go”. I’m thinking specifically of, for example, Hosea – “Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.” (4:17) and especially 11:8 “How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel?

Romans 1:24, 26, 28 puts it slightly differently when it says, three times, God “gave them up…”
So it seems clear that there comes a time when God, albeit with tears, will give us up, let us go, hand us over.

Now in the course of our spiritual maturation we come upon spiritual mentors who’ve helped us; whether teachers, or writers and to them we owe, of course, deep gratitude for helping us along the way. For me one such prominent voice was A G Maxwell who taught religion at the University where I trained. (as well as wrote a few books, and taught lessons which I listened to on tapes and CD’s) He is the one who guided me, for example, away from penal substitution models for explaining the Atonement.

And he was very passionate about the persistent love of God and how badly we misrepresent Him in our Christian doctrine making Him seem vindictive, arbitrary, vengeful, and severe. But, sadly, God can do only “so much” and, being a gracious God who respects our “freedom” to much to “force us” to love Him, must eventually give us up and let us go. This of course brings great anguish to the heart of God, but He has done “everything He could” and so we are “let go”. And for him this meant annihilation.

Well, I accepted that explanation for a long time. Until gradually coming to embrace the Universalism best explained (in my opinion) by first Talbott and then Parry. And now, an even larger group – including so many here.

None-the-less, there remains this language of being let go and given up by God. Almost sounding as if He’s lost interest, or ceases to expend effort on us anymore.

So what does it mean when God lets us go? What happens?

Perhaps being let go is simply just the next step up in the severity and intensity of God’s redeeming activity towards us. Far better to respond to the discipline of a loving Father but, should we continue our wayward rebellion, God moves to more apparently extreme and harsh measures; He gives us up. But not to death, or annihilation, or to a cessation of our existence, but rather to the hands of the one who does NOT have our best interest at heart. A la 1 Cor 5 when Paul, in exasperation and desperation condemns the rebel to Satan.

Odd little text comes to mind here – Proverbs 27:6 – “Faithful are the wounds of a friend” … Well, faithful is the discipline of a God whose intentions are only good towards us - even if we perceive His discipline as severity. (eg see Romans 11:22) What the evil one has in store for us is far more painful however; for he does not mean us well. Yet God, in His persistence, is willing to give us up to this horrific fate – so that He may save us.

Talk about “tough love”!!!

Anyway, would be interested to hear your wisdom on this.

Bobx3

Good word, Bob. I think you’re 100% on the mark. The other example that comes to mind is that of the prodigal son. “My son was dead and is now alive.” I guess it’s a megaton version of letting the kid go ahead and touch the hot stove after you’ve told him time and time again . . . I personally am not capable of that but I have friends with this philosophy and it is true that their kids never attempt to touch the wood stove, and you don’t have to tell them. Not sure how I feel about that, but there IS a point where I agree that God says, “Okay, thy will be done,” as CS Lewis says. Unlike Lewis though, I don’t think that means He loses His beloved permanently. He only does it if it becomes necessary and then only as a tactic in the battle He WILL win.

I’m at the house this evening (and ought to be going to bed!), but I’m pretty sure I recall God talking through Hosea about only temporarily letting Ephraim go; it’s kind of parallel to that place in Jeremiah where Rachel is weeping for her slain rebel children (Ephraim) and God swears He hasn’t given up on them and sorrows over them, too, and still remembers them, and will bring them back and restore them once they’ve repented.

Yes – I’m not reading Hosea just now, but I remember it the same.

I think God does let some go for awhile into His judgments. Those who are more stubborn than others. It’s my belief that God’s judgments are eternal. His anger will not turn back until He accomplishes the desire of His heart - the salvation of all. He destroys the old person forever in hell and makes new by His grace. Christ is the first fruits. The second fruits are those chosen by grace in this lifetime. The third fruits are those who receive no forgiveness in this age or the age to come. They must suffer eternal destruction of the old person in hell. God then makes them new. I base my understanding on how God judges in the book of Isaiah. It is said to last forever but He does make new. All will eventually confess Christ as Lord to the glory of the Father. Even Satan and his angels are reduced to ashes as they lay in hell forever and then made new. That is, God’s Holy Wrath destroys sin and the sinner in hell. They are then made new by grace and brought up into more of God’s love and grace. God does sometimes have a Holy hatred towards sin and certain sinners. This is why He destroys them and makes them new as He is driven and motivated by His holiness.