The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Where does the bible say you CAN'T repent AFTER you die?

Evangelical Universalism
#1

Does the bible say that there is no second chance? I know folks always quote Hebrews 9:27 to prove this:

27 And inasmuch as (A)it is [a]appointed for men to die once and after this (B)comes judgment,

But if you read the context of this passage it is NOT talking about the subject of WHEN man gets the chance to choose salvation. It is saying we have only one life as opposed to 2 lives, or three, and even that isn’t the point of the verse. It is talking about the sacrifice of Christ. It doesn’t say that when a person dies, there is nothing that could happen between then and judgment, or after judgment…at least I don’t think it does. What do you think?

#2

This is one of the things I’m using to introduce the idea of UR to my friends. When hell/Bell or some other related topic comes up, I say something like, “well, it seems to me, as I’ve been studying what the Bible actually says about this, is that two things seem to be affirmed by Scripture: 1. at some point in the future, all people are sentenced to what appears to be either ‘eternal punishment’ or ‘eternal life’, and 2. also as some point in the future, God will be ‘all in all’ and ‘all things’ will be reconciled to God through Christ. How do we make sense of this? Apparently there are two ways: 1. either ‘all things’ doesn’t mean ‘all things’ or 2. the sentence of ‘eternal punishment’ isn’t immutable.”

If my friend shows some openness to the second possibility, I’ll follow up with something like, “I mean, after all, we were all destined to destruction, eternal separation apart from God as children of wrath, before we were saved by Christ, right? If it’s true that ‘all things’ get ‘reconciled’ to God through Christ at some point in the future, who’s to say that whatever Christ did for you and me he won’t figure out a way to do that for others in the afterlife? I haven’t been able to find in the Bible, although people get sentenced to ‘eternal punishment’, an actual description of ‘eternal punishment’ as a lasting state. On the other hand, I find many descriptions of a lasting state of God getting glory from all creation.”

#3

I don’t see that verse as ruling out second chances at all. Given that up until Calvin postmortem repentance/salvation (albeit for a few) was seen an possible by the church fathers/leaders, I imagine that they didn’t see that verse as ruling out second chances either. I don’t know of Calvin making a good biblical case for ruling it out, I think it just didn’t fit his system.

#4

Hi Chris,

There is nothing I know of that directly states that there can be no repentance after this life.

I think most of us have many opportunities in this lifetime to choose for or against God – so I don’t really like the term “second chance” – and I believe we will continue to have choices after death.

I agree with you on the Hebrews passage – it’s a comparison to illustrate the one time sufficiency of the sacrifice offered by Christ. It takes for granted that we die once and then face judgment on the life we lived. This doesn’t mean there won’t be further opportunities for repentance and change. And I happen to think there is a solid biblical case for believing that the judgments of God against our sin are for our reformation.

Sonia

#5

Concerning the opening question, I can’t think of any scripture that implies that one can’t repent after he dies. In fact, I believe that Judgment is for our good. That through judgment we come to face the truth about our lives; and this truth burns the hell out of us! Scripture does not say in vain that on that day God will dry every tear, for I imagine there will be buckets of tears, buckets of my tears for Him to dry.

I’ve experienced, tasted of the Judgment a couple of times. It was terrible, producing in me terrible weeping and even grinding of teeth in anger and frustration at myself; but it worked in me repentance. The truth delivers us from all manner of deception, the most insidious of which is self-deception!

#6

Plus, there are a whole host of scriptures testifying that judgment produces righteousness, even if it also causes destruction.

Most people assume (because that’s what they’ve been taught) that the Hebrews verse means that there is no “second chance”, but I think that’s because of their lack of understanding of the true nature of judgment and its purpose.

Actually, I think the whole idea of “second chance” is silly anyway, because God does not leave things to chance, as I see it.

#7

Some might argue that the Rich Man and Lazarus might point to the inability to get another chance after death since they were on their fixed sides. What do you think about that?

#8

Assuming for the sake of argument that, instead of being a parable (which is my view), the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is to be understood as a literal, historical account of two people’s actual, post-mortem experience, what is being described in this story is an intermediate state of existence before the resurrection of the dead takes place. Even if one understands this story literally, the place in which the Rich Man is in torment is only temporary. Although I don’t believe the dead are literally conscious in Hades, I think the “great chasm” can be considered a good metaphor for the fact that things do not change during the intermediate state. In Hades the righteous remain righteous and the wicked remain wicked. People simply retain whatever moral status they had at death (i.e., just or unjust). But after the resurrection of the dead, the “great chasm” that separates the wicked from the righteous in Hades will be no more. When Christ gives the command and “death, the last enemy” is “destroyed,” the “sting of death” (which is sin) will, I believe, be absent (1 Cor 15:55-56). All will be subjected to Christ when the dead are redeemed from Hades, and the kingdom of God will then “fill the whole earth” (Dn 2:35; cf. Is. 11:9; Hb 2:14).

#9

When Jesus says that the “door will be shut” (is that the parable of the virgins?), this could conceivably imply that it doesn’t matter what you do (repent or otherwise), the door remains shut!

#10

That’s a great angle. I like the either/or. Once people realize something has to give way, they won’t feel so uncomfortable. Both verses seem clear. Both can’t be right, taken at face value.

#11

Never understood what “all in all” means? Is that some kind of idiomatic expression>?

#12

Many people “assume” that this passage is speaking of some people getting into heaven and others being shut out of heaven. But that’s a big assumption. If one assumes a moral lesson is being taught, then one arrives at a very different message. And if one considers the context, that being Jesus speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem, one can arrive at even another interpretation.

Personally, I lean towards Jesus teaching a moral lesson about missed opportunities because of lazyness and being ill prepared. If we are not diligent to be prepared, whether through education, prayer, physical fitness, etc., if one is not diligent to be prepared, one might miss out on the party, some of the good things God would bless us with.

#13

No, I believe the more accurate translation is “all, and in all”. Which makes more sense.

#14

I Peter 4:1-6 NKJV

Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

#15

dtraylor,
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with that passage. Would you elaborate?

Sonia

#16

I believe one can repent after one dies. But I do not believe anyone can repent once they are in Hell. I do believe that the God of mercy comes to us first right after death. I believe He asks us three times if we want to go with Him, meaning do we want His forgiveness. And if all three times, we refuse His grace and mercy, then we go to Hell out of our own free choice. But once we are in Hell, that’s it! We cannot go back and ask forgiveness. I believe three times because that’s how many times Jesus asked Peter if he loved Him “more than these”.

#17

That’s an interesting belief, 1hope4all. I don’t believe in Hell though because it is not named or taught in scripture. Sadly, depending on the translation you read, there are some words mistranslated as Hell, but not one actually means Hell. Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna were mistranslated as Hell in the KJV. But Sheol and Hades mean grave or realm of the dead. And Gehenna, which Matthew so often quoted Jesus warning of was/is Hinnom Valley which is SSW of Jerusalem/Mt.Zion, was where the Isrealites sacrificed their own children to the idol Molech, and was where the bodies were piled high for the animals and maggots (worms that do not die) and fires of judgment were to comsume when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem. This happened again when the Romans conquered Jerusalem.

Anyhow, welcome to the forum. Please do introduce yourself. I’d enjoy getting to know you.

Blessings,
Sherman

#18

Hi 1Hope. :smiley:
Glad to have you here! I agree with Sherman about hell, but also about getting to know you better. :wink: We’d love to hear more of your story and where you’re coming from. Just go to the “Introductions” section in the members only area and start a thread. I’ll tag you just so you know we’ve responded to your post.[tag]1Hope4All[/tag]

All the best,

Steve