I’ve read various views of punishment and lack of punishment on this board. I find a lot of it confusing. I want to try to approach it with baby steps instead of long essays. I want to start with a closed ended question, if I may: Who on this board believes that God doesn’t punish people? I’m not asking about literal never ending punishment with no chance of liberation. But who on this board believes that God doesn’t punish people?
A clarifying question: When?
I’m not really sure I’ve got this all nailed down myself, but I’m beginning to lean more toward the view that punishment occurs in this life, before our physical death.
I do believe that God punishes people, but for me the big question is, when?
Thanks, Melchizedek.
I’m wondering why you lean toward believing that their are no punishments in the afterlife. For example, do you believe that the Bible never teaches that their are punishments in the afterlife for some people? Or do you believe that various biblical verses teach that there are punishments in the afterlife while you think that those verses are wrong? Or is it something else?
And again, at this point, I’m not looking for long essays but a summary of ideas.
Well, again; I’m not extremely sure of myself on this yet, but in general, I haven’t seen what could conclusively be considered punishments that of necessity have to occur after our physical deaths. Where my uncertainty comes in is that in order for this to be correct, interpretation of certain sections of scripture must be seen differently.
Judgment can certainly occur before death (that’s the OT precedent in fact) and often the judgment is death. Certainly we can reap what we sow in this life (whether we realize it or not). Some of it certainly comes down to how one interprets Revelation, or for that matter if one even accepts Revelation as canon. Christ was sent to save us from sin and death rather than post mortem punishments; the sting of death is sin, but as far as I can tell, sin only occurs pre-mortem. Those are a few things that come to mind off the top of my head from things I’ve read in the past.
I hope that helps.
Hi James,
I definitely believe in divine punishment; I just don’t think it extends beyond this mortal life. But I don’t hold to this view because I simply don’t like the idea of post-mortem punishment (I don’t see anything wrong with it per se). I just think every verse and passage that speaks of punishment pertains to this lifetime. However, I wouldn’t have any problem believing in post-mortem remedial punishment if I understood Scripture to teach that some will continue to be sinners after the literal resurrection. I just don’t see that as being the case.
Depends on what you mean by punishment.
In Canada, our penal system code is reformation and reconciliation into society. It is not punitive but correctional, this is why we call them correctional. Although our intentions as human is to hope for their correction, we know that not all will be reformed and corrected; but what is impossible for man is possible for God.
So why can a temperal finite nation have their entire justice system focused on the safety of society and the rehabilitation of those who have hurt or cross that society; yet an eternal infinite God unable to do the same?
That should be obvious, God is an American! 
Craig.
Are you serious? Prison rehabilitates the prisoners? Are you kidding me? Most of the prisoners (if they get out) are far worse than they were before they went in. God does not use the fires of Hell to rehabilitate unbelievers to come to love him. That is absolutely absurd. How much faith does one need to want to be removed from being tormented beyond comprehension in fire? That is not faith…that is forcing unbelievers to love God by being tormented. Won’t happen in this age or any other age. God does not operate in your man made doctrine. God gives man a choice in this life. Believe and receive or doubt and do without.
Hi Aaron,
I’ll clarify that I believe that God uses remedial punishments both in this life and in some cases in the life to come.
I understand that you believe that the Bible teaches that there are punishments in this life but not in the next. I wish to clarify something, if I may. Do you believe that punishments in this life are non-remedial or remedial?
Hi Craig,
I believe that the overall context of the Bible teaches that divine punishments always have an ultimate goal of correction. In that context, do you believe that God punishes people?
Jim.
I believe one is punished in the afterlife with no pardon by rejecting Jesus in this life. Non-remedial. Why? Read Luke 16:19-31…the richman was not changed due to the fact he was being tormented in flames. His heart remained the same. His spiritual death spirit remained the same. He remained the self-centered, arrogant sinner he was when he died.
Btw, I believe the only doctrine that we don’t agree on is UR. I’m a saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost believer just like you…our only difference is UR. We are more the same than you realize.
Of course, but the punishment is now as a Son and not a stranger.
I differ some on this. God punishes us with the goal of adopting everybody as a son, but the Bible never teaches that all humans are children of God before they accept the gift of salvation.
I’m a little unclear of what you mean. Are you implying that all humans are now sons of God regardless of what they believe or are you suggesting something else?
Well, I see all punishment as the means by which God prepares the guilty to receive his grace at a future time. So in that sense, I do understand punishment to be remedial. Ultimately, I think all punishment in this life will contribute to the final happiness of those who experienced it.
- God does not punish those who are not his son.
Hebrews 12:4-6
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”
- All humanity is reconciled which means their had to been a relationship previously established.
2 Corinthians 5:18-21
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: live reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
So, if people are being punished who are not His Children, then they are being punished by another of whom they are it’s children. If that is the case, then God doesn’t punish people, he only punishes his sons and if this is the case then even your belief “God punishes us with the goal of adopting everybody as a son” is wrong.
Where does Scripture say we must accept the gift of salvation to be a Child of God? It doesn’t. Whether one accepts salvation in this life, does not dictate whether on is a Child of God or not.
Craig, thanks.
I now understand that you believe that God punishes people in the context of being a son.
On one hand, we agree that God punishes people and all people will eventually reconcile with God. On the other hand, we disagree about the dynamics of sonship.
For example, you ask and answer, "Where does Scripture say we must accept the gift of salvation to be a Child of God? It doesn’t. "
However, I see that the Bible clearly teaches that people born after the fall of humanity must accept the gift of salvation to be a child/son of God:
John 1:12 (NIV) “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—”
Galatians 3:26 (NIV) “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,”
Jim.
Your the only one on this board that believes biblical doctrine outside of UR. Most doctrines that are being pushed around this board profit no one and are unbiblical. It’s amazing some of the things I read that people believe.
Hi Aaron,
I completely agree with you when you say,“Well, I see all punishment as the means by which God prepares the guilty to receive his grace at a future time. So in that sense, I do understand punishment to be remedial. Ultimately, I think all punishment in this life will contribute to the final happiness of those who experienced it.” However, I’m surprised to hear you say, “I just think every verse and passage that speaks of punishment pertains to this lifetime.”
For example, Jesus says in Revelation 22:12 (NIV), “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.” And Revelation appears to teach about God inflicting wrathful punishment that causes torment for both living and dead people. And I suppose I cannot understand why you believe that Revelation doesn’t teach about God inflicting wrathful punishment that causes torment for both living and dead people. Or is their something else that you believe? Thank you.
Well, I do see Revelation as teaching that God was about to pour out his wrath on people (i.e., the unbelieving people of the Jewish nation), but I don’t think that any who experienced his wrath at that time were physically dead. Instead, I believe they were spiritually dead. I’m of the opinion that those who are physically dead are no longer conscious, and, consequently, are no longer capable of experiencing punishment.
Aaron.
Was the Richman in Hades unconscious when he was being tormented in flames? ( Luke 16:19-31)
And a Republican as well! 
