The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Why does masturbation get such a negative reaction

The problem is that it isn’t food, it is not like eating lunch. Porn is a screwed up degrading industry, it is prostitution, and it is unrealistic to expect the pimps that make it to be responsible or respectful of the people they are prostituting for money.

Consider this hypothetical. Let’s say 50% of the persons/prostitutes(or whatever you want to call them) involved are good at concealing pain of all kinds but are very broken people and working in porn for them is a horrible experience that involves suffering and conflictedness, 20% of the others are indifferent about it and don’t see it as being anymore soul-crushing than being a cashier at a grocery store, and the other 30% are horny all the time and love working in porn so much that they would probably do it for free(which is basically how the real world porn industry portrays the people involved). Would you be comfortable with masturbating to it knowing that there is a 50% chance that each person you are masturbating to is suffering, isn’t loving themselves, and or is conflicted about what they are doing and that is what you are taking pleasure in? One may say “But it is not certain that I will be taking pleasure in brokenness rather than genuine unconflicted ‘sluttiness’!” Then I ask? What odds are you comfortable with? If 90% were broken people would you be comfortable? Let’s be very charitable(unrealistically so) to the porn industry and say that 10% are broken people and 90% are unconflicted happy nymphomaniacs… are those acceptable odds? What about 1% and 99%? It seems abominable to me to take pleasure in suffering(abominable describes such pleasure rather than the person) I think it would be pretty dang naive to think any less than 1 in 20 were suffering as a result of being in porn. I do not know whether the majority currently suffer greatly as a result(I suspect that is the case) but because it is sin, I don’t see the possibility of it being a legitimate job and people participating in porn without consequences. They may not all be poor helpless victims(some are literally forced into it though) but those who are not are likely addicts(not so different than us) or even cold blooded(but that can not remove their dignity or justify objectifying them, etc) Don’t buy into the porn industry that tells you that all these porn stars are just having harmless fun, they are broken sex addicts or psychopaths or something at best and at worst they find it extremely degrading(although that may be preferable for their sake since at least then they will accept that they have a problem and desire to leave).

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You might also want to consider your soul. Seriously. And whether you want to be Christ’s disciple above everything else. You are not alone in your thinking, and I’ve known men who fought this for along time. Sanity is at hand however:

It is worthy of special remark, that without this moral
energy, resisting passion and impulse, our tenderest at
tachments degenerate more or less into weaknesses and
immoralities ; sometimes prompting us to sympathize
with those whom we love, in their errors, prejudices,
and evil passions ; sometimes inciting us to heap upon
them injurious praises and indulgences : sometimes urg
ing us to wrong or neglect others, that we may the more
enjoy or serve our favorites ; and sometimes poisoning
our breasts with jealousy or envy, because our affection
is not returned with equal warmth. The principle of
love, whether exercised towards our relatives or our
country, whether manifested in courtesy or compassion,
can only become virtue, can only acquire purity, consis
tency, serenity, dignity, when imbued, swayed, cherish
ed, enlarged by the power of a virtuous will, by a selfdenying
energy. It is Inward Force, power over our
selves, which is the beginning and the end of virtue.
You have gen
erous and honorable feelings, you scorn mean actions,
your heart beats quick at the sight or hearing of cour
ageous, disinterested deeds, and all these are inter
esting qualities ; but, remember, they are the gifts of
nature, the endowments of your susceptible age. They
are not virtue. God and the inward monitor ask for
more. The question is, Do you strive to confirm, into
permanent principles, the generous sensibilities of the
heart ? Are you watchful to suppress the impetuous
emotions, the resentments, the selfish passionateness,
which are warring against your honorable feelings ? Es
pecially do you subject to your moral and religious
convictions, the love of pleasure, the appetites, the
passions, which form the great trials of youthful virtue ?
Here is the field of conflict to which youth is summoned.
Trust not to occasional impulses of benevolence, to
constitutional courage, frankness, kindness, if you sur
render yourselves basely to the temptations of your age.
No man who has made any observation of life, but will
tell you how often he has seen the promise of youth
blasted ; intellect, genius, honorable feeling, kind af
fection, overpowered and almost extinguished, through
the want of moral strength, through a tame yielding to
pleasure and the passions. Place no trust in your good
propensities, unless these are fortified, and upheld, and
improved by moral energy and self-control* —* To all of
us, in truth, the same lesson comes. If any man will
be Christ’s disciple, sincerely good, and worthy to be
named among the friends of virtue, if he will have in
ward peace and the consciousness of progress towards
Heaven, he must deny himself, he must take the cross,
and follow Christ in the renunciation of every gain and
pleasure inconsistent with the will of God.
Channing, ‘Self-Denial’

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Great tip, Davo. I’m still waiting to see, if the thread poster - wants a serious discussion or NOT. Which if he CLAIMS to be Christian, then it’s EASY for him…to take the scripture verses, Got Questions uses - from any related article - and give his perspective.

I’m rewatching the movie Gremlins right now And my favorite scene is where the Gremlins are watching Snow White - and enjoying it. Then the teenagers, blow up the theater. Sometimes we have to do that, to see where the poster is coming from. And if they are serious or not.

Sometimes you need to entice folks, to watch Snow White - before you blow up the theater! :crazy_face:

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I’ve removed images.

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Agreed with removing the image, though apparently the opening post still hasn’t been restored? Can’t tell for sure; I’m getting conflicting signals about that from the way the opening post looks.

I’m not a big fan of the thread, and I tend to agree with Randy that the original poster (who has never posted anything else on this forum yet who claims to have many friends here, which looks suspicious) has yet to prove that he wants a serious discussion about Christian practices per se.

Someone with an actual sex addiction posting on this topic, would be parallel to someone rolling up to a table at a restaurant who has never been at the table before saying, “I’m an alcoholic with an addiction to alcohol, and LET’S ALL TALK ABOUT ALCOHOL I’M SO DRUNK Y’ALLL I’ve been drinking so much recently and I don’t think it’s a bad thing, how about you? I’ve got lots of friends here at the table, I don’t have anything to feel guilty about!” While the rest of us look around and think, uh, this looks super sketchy, does anyone know this guy??

I appreciate (at least from an academic and free-speech standard) the other posters here trying to have a discussion on the topic, but you should also understand that you’re enabling someone who has acknowledged having an addiction. (“First of all I am the husband half of “weareacouple” however my wife feels the same about the subject. We have been together for 25 years and we both admitted early in the relationship that we were both addicted to sex.”) Completely aside from the ethical principles of the situation (and I realize there are some nuances in this case, as presented anyway), addictions should not be fostered but should be resisted.

So I’m going to restore the original post (not the image, Alex took that out), but I actually agree with the flagger who questioned “inappropriate?” in flagging it. Other posters here should keep in mind the context of the situation: people who have an addiction, looking for ways to express that addiction, and also for reassurance that they aren’t guilty of anything involving their addiction, such as, for example, fostering their addiction…? – well, I know from local family experience how addiction works. This post looks to me like the addiction talking, so to speak, looking for justification.

As far as the technical question goes: missing one’s devoted spouse and relieving that loneliness while thinking about him or her (with permission) while you’re apart is one thing – and something that men in particular have problems with, since biologically we have material (seed and prostate fluid) that our bodies need to get rid of one way or another on a regular basis or else we start rotting in various ways; and different guys have different levels of material production, though those levels also can depend on external factors which might be avoided or reduced. (This biological factor and its psychological and physical stresses has led to very many problems in human history, with even history-shaping results.) So this doesn’t seem like an ethical problem to me.

Using other people and their sexual activity and provocations as arousal is something else. If I’m ever married and I can’t be with my wife for various reasons, I’m not going to go using porn to think about her while relieving myself. That’s wrong, including ethically wrong, on several levels. Admittedly, I don’t have a sex addiction, which might easily induce me into that situation; but if I did, I’d realize I have even MORE responsibility: to control the addiction, not to give it free license. Even if I failed at that occasionally, I’d still be against the addiction! – not only for my own sake (since it would be driving me irrationally into various behaviors), but for the sake of other people.

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I am not sure this thread started by my husband is still posted or not but I guess I will add to it with a HI EVERYONE and see if it is still visible. Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!!

And I’m still waiting…to see if you take one of the Got Questions articles I posted…and give your perspective, on the Bible verses they use. I even created a Got Questions Porn Perspective link - to refresh your memory.

Let’s dedicate a song, to my waiting. Which will come first? You responding to my request…or someone complaining and the admin, removing any current and subsequent images?

I am not sure of what you are talking about with the got questions deal but what sub sequent pics are you talking about???

What I’m saying is that some folks here might feel, the pics you post might be singing this song. And complain to the admins - like they did before.

this is the first time I have posted anything on here. Are you sure that you are not going to be the one complaining?

Not me. I’ll just keep pestering you…to give your perspective, on the Bible verses they use in the Got Questions Porn Perspective. And once an aspiring Holy Fool, goes on a quest. Well, they are as persistent as Bug Bunny or a Hound From Hell. :wink:

image

But I’ll have to “chat” more tomorrow. VH1 is airing some Indiana Jones movies. In the absence of any Zombie movies (AKA The Walking Dead, Mid-season finale), these will be almost as entertaining. :crazy_face:

love the IJ series

About 4 decades or so ago, art was going through a transition. And some artists were trying to present shock value. So some well-known artist put a urinal on display. And he signed his name on it. Then at first, it caused a shock value But later, folks got used to it. Does this artist bring anyone to mind here? :crazy_face:

If you really press someone, who advocates porn - guess what? There are usually standards, they will not violate.

There used to be a western called Have Gun, Will Travel. And he was a suffocated and clever, soldier of fortune. Well, this is my favorite episode:

He staked his life, that a town that gave refuge to murders, thieves and rapists - would let him take a killer away. Well, this killer left a female child mute and psychotic. And it was too much, even for them.

Paladin goes after a wagon-master who led the massacre of his own wagon train. Rusty Doggett hides out in a town entirely populated by wanted outlaws. Finding someone to betray Doggett in the Bide-a-Wee Saloon is no problem, but crossing the death-line with his prisoner is very tricky. How much justice can Paladin bargain for in Hell ?

What if porn contained child actors and actresses? How do we know they don’t? Especially in the third world, Asian and Latin American countries? Or even Middle Eastern countries. Is this acceptable?

Or let’s look at an old, Nicholas Cage film:

Now watch the clip. It’s PG rated, I believe.

It’s about what we call a

Would this be acceptable?

If you keep pressing folks, you will find…there are standards even they, won’t violate.

But our original poster, needs to give his perspective first…on the Bible verses they use in the Got Questions Porn Perspective. Only one link is needed.

So how do I know this stuff, you might ask?

I remember taking a class, in business ethics. And we had to do a presentation project, for the class. Well, I was teamed up with another male. We decided to do a debate, in the porn industry. And I took the side, of the porn producer. And I even had a facial disguise. Well, the professor (who had 2 Ph.D. degrees) - loved it. And he couldn’t get it, out of his mind. He said my disguise, reminded him of someone from another planet. Needless to say, I DON’T endorse the porn industry - or porn - for that matter. And I didn’t do any research, by watching “artistic” films. :crazy_face:

It goes without saying that anything in a porn movie that is illegal (child porn, underage actors, snuff or murder is wrong and should be condemned by all and anyone producing it or buying it should be arrested. However there are several things that both men and women can learn about pleasing their mate by watching porn and if your mate is satisfied, they are less likely to look elsewhere. As a woman I will admit that I deep throated my first cock after seeing it done in a porn movie and as a result I experience the real pleasure that men get by climaxing in my mouth. I still enjoy it til this day LOL

But back to my original question. You need to give his (or her) perspective first…on the Bible verses they use in the Got Questions Porn Perspective . Only one link is needed.

For BOTH the poster’s response and Homo Re-Animus. If you search the forum, you discover what the latter phase means. Hint: It’s a scientific term. :crazy_face:

Well the original poster is not here, just his wife.

You will do. You need to give your perspective first…on the Bible verses, they use in the Got Questions Porn Perspective . Only one link is needed. He claimed both him and his wife, are born again Christians.

We both are and I have been long enough to realize that 10 born again Christians in a room will hear 10 different messages when they read the verses you are directing me to in those links but I guess it is your way or the highway.

It’s the start of a serious conversation. Folks here tend to discuss Bible verses. They give their views on it. It’s also true, of any Christian church. And I have heard more, then 10 different views - here on the forum. On any particular topic. So I like to hear, you and your husband’s views… on the Bible verses, they use in the Got Questions Porn Perspective . Only one link is needed.