The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Why does masturbation get such a negative reaction

First of all I am the husband half of “weareacouple” however my wife feels the same about the subject. We have been together for 25 years and we both admitted early in the relationship that we were both addicted to sex. When we are together we have a great sex life however we both travel for our jobs and when we are apart we both use porn and masturbation to get what we need. When we have discussed this with out church friends they all say that it is wrong and even cheating on our mate. My wife left yesterday on a sales trip and I got home last night about 19 and stripped down and have been jacking and watching porn all night and I don’t feel that I have anything to feel guilty about… We have many friends on this forum however I am more than willing to open up on this subject if it means getting a honest and open discussion going. [Image removed by moderator]

Well, since you included “porn”…here’s the Got Questions site take:

So they give some perspectives, on masturbation and porn. I’m sure folks here, would have other views…that can be “far more liberal”…and perhaps “far more conservative” than Got Questions.

But I have to admit. I have a “thing” - for “hot female zombies” (even the Hollywood style types). :crazy_face:

Thanks so much for being bold enough to reply. I will take some time today to read each one. One of them that caught my eye was the one that stated “not lusting after the actors in the porn movies” because that is 100% me, My desire is not to have sex with them but only to use the visual of what they are doing to achieve the next climax.

Thanks for your post (and sharing your photos :slight_smile: ). I think the danger with watching porn is attraction to the actors or actresses. Masturbating while using your imagination about your partner (instead of porn) resolves the attraction issue (although personally I resist that as well).

thanks for the message and not being offend with the pictures. Although I do watch big tit porn (and you can see my wife has huge tits) I guess you could say that I do get some excitement from the actors.

I used to be part of the extended family, of the Two Feathers Medicine Clan (AKA Native American spirituality). And hung out for years, on the Crete, Illinois farm - entitled The Spirit of Crazy Horse. Until the spiritual leader, Duke Big Feather - passed away. But there was something some folks used, called Elk medicine. I never used it personally. And I can’t affirm nor deny, whether I partook of other medicines and ceremonies - like ayahuasca and peyote. Even though modern medical and scientific research, shows them to be effective for things like addiction, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, depression, etc. But the Elk medicine would make you like superman (or superwoman) - in a certain area of life. :crazy_face:

I might go off for a while. And come back and see, if other folks have chimed in. :crazy_face:

I am going to look into that LOL

If the choice you face due to your libido is between sleeping with another woman while on a sales trip (a not unusual occurrence on sales trips from what I’ve heard) and watching porn, then watching porn is the better option. Only you can estimate to what extent you can control your libido while away from your wife. In the long run, the trouble with porn is that it can be addictive so that you may find that the graphicness of it ends up being more appealing than sex with your wife. Together with the Spirit, you’ll need to discern what works to ensure the long term health of your marriage. I hope this is of help.

yes what you say makes a lot of sense. I have been married to my wife for 25 years and never have cheated and she is still huge turn on when we are together. So other may relate, just as the drunk desires their next drink, so to does the sex addict desire their next climax.

If you want people to take your question seriously, you probably should remove the images.

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Hopefully, this guy won’t be stopping by - this forum thread. I’m talking about the doctor’s patient, :wink:

How did we in this country get so serious and hung up on our bodies anyway. After all Adam and Eve in the beginning and God didn’t have a problem with it. After all everyone from a very young age knows what the other sex has, don’t we? Perhaps it is more about how we look under our clothes that what we have under our clothes. AKA, my wife gets more grief about the size of her tits from other women than anyone else.

@JasonPratt @Alex_Smith
Had a chance to read this from top to bottom? No pun…

Porn is foul stuff I was hooked on that crap for nearly half my life(since I hit puberty and until the last few years)

Some things people and especially christians(or most religious or spiritual types) should consider before thinking porn is ok. This is intended to help thwart rationalizations/justifications rather than trying to encourage unproductive shame or self-hate.

  1. It is not purely a matter of illicit lust, fornication, and adultery(there are multiple other ways ways it can be wrong/harmful if not sinful). It is not purely a matter of sexual sins and we must consider other things like whether it is completely compatible with the “golden rule”, mercy, love, etc. An argument against porn does not require traditional/mainstream understandings of fornication, adultery, etc. (I will not be using arguments related to this besides point 2)

  2. Many porn stars are married. There are disagreements among christians about what qualifies as adultery but is willfully fantasizing about another person’s spouse really that ambiguous?

  3. Many porn stars regret getting involved and would probably want the pornographic videos and pictures removed if they had any choice in the matter. As a christian universalist, I believe that they will all eventually change their minds about it(that they will come to believe it was a bad and or ugly thing) if not regret it but many more certainly will change their minds regardless. Yes, most probably made a choice(there are certainly exceptions where people are unwilling) and were completely or at least partially complicit but as a person who has been forgiven and shown mercy I want to have similar compassion on those who are repentant or even regretful. A christian should not justify/rationalize their actions by thinking/saying “They should never have gotten involved or signed any contracts if they didn’t want pictures, videos, etc to stay on the internet!” Such a statement is absolutely true(for people who were voluntarily involved in porn and responsible for their own actions) but we can not justify anything by it. A person has no right to complain about their willful mistakes or sins coming back to bite them but we have no good reason to be justifying our selfishness with the mistakes of others(retribution is only justified when it is unselfish and does good). We shouldn’t want to be agents of suffering and we certainly shouldn’t want to take pleasure in something that causes a person suffering.

  4. Many of the pornographic pictures and videos are of dead people(even if they were not dead at the time of the filming). It may not be necrophilia as far as mental health is concerned but it seems morally similar if not the same. Porn involving currently dead porn stars can be likened to masturbating over a corpse or maybe masturbating over a picture on a person’s obituary. This is not to say that people who watch such videos are “into” that sort of thing or that their sexuality has been twisted in the same way but when we are considering the morality/immorality of such porn we need to consider whether that is wrongful treatment of the dead(whether the dead should be treated with respect). My point is that how we approach death and the treatment of the dead is a relevant subject. It certainly seems pretty morbid either way. To make matters even more disturbing, some of these people committed suicide and I suspect the porn acting had something to do with it.

  5. A significant amount of porn involves unwilling/non-consenting people. This isn’t even by ridiculous extremist-feminist/SJW ideas of consent. There are people who have clearly refused and clearly don’t want to be in porn videos or have sex with the people involved. Sex slavery and child sex slavery are some obvious examples. I am sure that there is probably also pressuring or bribing people into doing things that they don’t desire to do (involving cruelty, disgusting stuff, etc)

  6. (This is pretty much a continuation of 5.) There is also the matter of people filming sex with a person(with or without their knowledge/permission) and sharing videos/pictures without their consent. Many people will say that it is stupid or unwise to give a person permission to film you having sex with them but it is really irrelevant whether it is the dumbest or most ingenious idea to give such permission. Idiots are not sub-human or non-persons. It is still wrong and basically a form of rape(or some kind of extreme violation of some sort) to share such videos and pictures on the internet or with others without a person’s permission and it is wrong to knowingly gawk at and use such videos for masturbation. It is not different or less sleazy than trying to look up people’s skirts. It would probably be extreme to consider the most naive/ignorant of porn users to be guilty of this particular evil but once you know that such videos are out there you have an obligation not to watch them and not to risk watching them.

  7. It can harm the people involved physically, emotionally, sexually, and psychologically. Are all difficult jobs necessarily bad? No. Some people have emotionally, physically, and or psychologically stressful/harmful/difficult jobs that are still important and good despite the suffering involved if the jobs help people and do good(and if the workers are voluntarily involved obviously). For example, I have heard that some medical professions or missionary work can involve suffering. But giving someone something to masturbate to isn’t worth the suffering that goes into it.

  8. It can put both viewers and the people being filmed on a path of becoming less empathetic/compassionate regardless of whether the acts are consensual. This is true of the more violent/rough stuff at least. If a person is being payed to inflict pain or humiliation on people(or taking pleasure in it) in any context it is going to cause a decline in compassion and or suffering on the person causing the pain. You can’t harm people or take pleasure in people being harmed without being negatively changed in some way.

  9. A person may have to face all the harm they have done at some point. We should not take pleasure in a person adding to their guilt(if they are doing something wrong). I imagine a person will have to face how they harmed others(maybe even as far as being aware of every evil/harm they are responsible for) at some point but that is speculative. Taking pleasure in a persons guilt(if a person is guilty of some wrongdoing) is screwed up.

  10. People involved in the videos may be conflicted about doing it. It is simply naive to think that all porn stars are totally sure about the stuff they are doing and actually enjoying it rather than acting and hiding their real feelings.

Some of these things can be avoided if a person does some research before fantasizing/masturbating. For example…(some ways of avoiding the different problems by their respective numbers)

  1. A person can research whether the people in the videos are married before using the video(for fantasizing/masturbating). This only works if the people involved are all named, credited, and say that they are not married(people can lie and say they are not married though). The risk of fantasizing/masturbating to married porn stars can be reduced but not eliminated.

  2. It is probably possible to avoid looking at videos that people regret by only watching “live” porn instead of recordings. Otherwise the risk can be reduced by research but not eliminated.

  3. That is avoidable by only watching live pornographic videos rather than recordings.The only risk here would be if the video wasn’t live because of a misunderstanding or deception.

  4. The risk of this can probably be reduced by researching before fantasizing/masturbating but there is no way to know for sure that they are not being coerced and or bribed.

  5. That is probably mostly avoidable with research but there are some cases where a porn company will still use videos and images even though a person involved has asked them not to or has withdrawn permission(it is legal but wrong to do so).

  6. Some porn is worse than others but I personally am not convinced this one can be avoided even if the shooting of some video didn’t cause the people involved any suffering, inner discord, malignant perversion, etc it is still likely that the porn company/producer involved are involved in some bad stuff that you are supporting by watching the videos(porn is funded not only by subscribers and buyers but by ads and the amount of clicks on the site). One company may be making some videos that don’t seem to revolve around pain, humiliation, etc but they might have a site that revolves around the more screwed up stuff. It isn’t enough to just avoiding watching the roughest stuff because large companies can be involved in all kinds of different porn and you are indirectly supporting it all if you are supporting the porn company.

  7. Probably unavoidable(aside from refusing to look at porn) but reducible.

  8. The risk of fantasizing/masturbating to such people is unavoidable but reducible if you are a master of reading people(and if you are actually reading them but a person who is watching porn is probably not carefully watching a person’s facial expressions, etc).

I don’t mention the ways to avoid some of the problems because I advocate watching discriminately(I don’t believe watching any of it is good) but to give an idea of what a person would have to go through to avoid these problems without refusing to watch porn entirely. It is absurd to think that person is going to do a bunch of research before watching a porn video or looking at porn pictures. Can you imagine a person diligently researching and watching out for all these factors before masturbating to the videos/images? It is less trouble and less risk to just not look at porn.

What about simple nudity(in magazines like Playboy for example)? The wrongness of porn(including “softcore” stuff like Playboy) has nothing to do with nudity or sex. The problem is not that there are pictures of naked women(or men). There is not anything intrinsically wrong with seeing naked people or nakedness. Softcore porn has some of the same problems mentioned above. The problem is that there are real people involved and some if not all of these people will eventually regret exposing themselves in such ways. The golden rule, compassion, decency, love, etc demand that we respect a person’s desire to not be looked upon or thought of in the way people typically look at porn nor should we look upon the most promiscuous and immodest person in a way that disregards their inalienable worth and dignity.

Nudity in movies and shows can be wrong for the same reason that Playboy is wrong. Nudity is not wrong so long as people are not being exploited, disrespected, etc. It ought to be obvious where to draw the line(just use common sense and your conscience). There really is no “tasteful” way to exploit a person’s nakedness for profit that I can think of.
The point is that the case against porn(on a moral level) is not entirely dependent on traditional understandings of fornication, adultery, etc or even being religious(someone who simply tries to live by the golden rule and respects people even when they aren’t looking ought to consider such arguments).
My primary reason for opposing porn use is the golden rule, respect for the rights of others, and my desire to love others. I also wanted to make some less orthodox and less obvious arguments(but some of the points I used are common in anti-porn arguments).
Not everyone will find such arguments compelling(and it is aimed mostly at christians and people with similar worldviews). I have noticed that some christians seem to think that porn is okay for christians to watch and that it is okay to willfully ogle people even when they are married(generally they interpret fornication and or adultery in an nontraditional way) but this is clearly wrong if the wife/husband does not approve of such behavior regardless of whether it is adulterous(notice I say “willfully”) because we should avoid things that are unnecessary and hurtful to people(maybe especially when we are married to them).

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Because I was such a slave to porn and seeking excitement through arousal in general, it had wrecked my life or at least ensured that my life went nowhere. So having what victory I have gained so far has utterly changed my life in just about every way. But some of the most ways it has changed or benifited me that came as a surprise to me are…

  1. Becoming a man and awakening my dormant “manly intuition”. Before I was almost a 14 year old in a 20 year old body and I didn’t know much about what manliness was. This was not just in terms of maturity but in being less confused about masculinity. I still have a lot of “manning up” and learning to do, but it has helped with this. I was not quite to the point of identifying as “queer” or anything, I still pretty much fit in with boys, but I was so ignorant and lacking of manliness, I was a eunuch.

  2. My perversions seem to have mostly withered away and been replaced with positive sexuality. I am surprised by how it seemingly happened on its own like things just falling into their proper place. It was like the equivalent to experiencing arsenic poisoning over time and getting all sorts of health issues but when the source of the exposure is taken away the body just does all the work of detoxifying and all you have to do is get out of its way.

  3. I have a gained a far higher view and respect for sex.

  4. I am a far more hopeful person after being given the gift of victory over so much of what I previously thought would not be possible to overcome.

  5. I am more open and I am not so afraid of what people will think about my past.

  6. I used to be grossed out by my own penis but now I am not.

  7. I used to think sex was dirty like it is portrayed in porn(even though I still liked the idea of it) but now that I have got that toxic crap out of my life, I don’t think it is dirty. I think God wants people to have good sex within marriage, he is the one that came up with the idea. But I would never want to talk dirty about sex or while having sex because I don’t believe in that nonsense anymore. Porn claims to be sex-positive but they are the ones that breath filth about sex, it is fine for a christian to use sexually explicit language or to talk about body parts or something, but we ought not associate it with dirtiness or “naughtiness” or rebellion. If it is any of those things, it is not worthy of being called sex.

Overall, I have become a less repressed person. Porn blinds us to so much truth and the things I am saying will not make sense to a person under its influence! Porn makes people into willing cucks, which is a form of repression. I was blind to so much and thought jealousy was a silly thing when I was under the influence of porn but now I see how much sense monogamy and exclusivity makes and honestly I find it more appealing on every level now. Getting that unnatural crap out of one’s life just makes so much stuff fall into its right place!

BTW I don’t see masturbation as inherently sinful, the problem is that people masturbate to things like porn or fantasies about sin. I don’t think there is anything morally wrong about masturbating while thinking about sexual memories with your wife I do think intentionally lusting for women outside of your marriage is wrong. It would be better to fantasize about your own wife or better yet, remember sexual memories with her. It is not good to fantasize about things that we could not actualize in good conscience, it corrupts the mind and makes us become more and more like the person we fantasize about being, little by little. I have lots of experience with how fantasies corrupt.

I avoid masturbation for pragmatic reasons since I am single and it has benefits anyway. I am more self-controlled in general and especially when it comes to sexuality when I avoid masturbation. If I just masturbate whenever I am feeling bad or bored, it makes me into a pathetic person. For me, it becomes an urge or a sort of addiction where if I do it, I want to do it with more and more frequency.

Daniel, I want to thank you for your input on this subject. it is clear that you have come a long way and you are living a much better life now. I am proud of everything I have posted in this thread because it is clear that the thread has triggered you to step out and no doubt you have helped others by doing so.

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What I like to see (and know) - is this - from the original poster.

  • Do you consider yourself a Christian, of some type? If so, what church affiliation do you belong to - if any?

  • I would like your thread answers to be a bit more “interesting”. Rather than say things, like “it helps my sex life”, "I’m free to do what I want’, etc. - do this. Take one one the Got Questions links, I posted earlier. Pick one, anyone. See what Bible verses they use and their explanation - for their perspective. Then take the same Bible verses, and use them for YOUR perspective.

Otherwise, the thread is like Seinfeld, with his “Yada, Yada, Yada.”. :crazy_face:

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You took me the wrong way, I am not saying that porn and jacking off are not damaging to people who abuse them or can’t control their urge to do so. I am saying that for those of us who enjoy both in moderation, they should not be guilted for the pleasure.
Some people have a problem with food and some do not. If you can’t control your eating, that is a sin, if you use food for pleasure, that is not a sin. When my wife is around, I never jack off and we get each other off.

But you haven’t told me, your background. Are you a Christian, agnostic or atheist? Or do you embrace, one of the major philosophers - like Epicurus or Ayn Rand? Without some personal background, one can say anything.