Specifically, I can agree with all the parts of those two paragraphs up to the “therefore”, without agreeing that the “therefore” really does logically follow. It doesn’t.
Who are you to unjustly judge how I feel about lost people not receiving spiritual life? You are out of line, Mr Pratt! I’m not winking at that I’m winking because I’m totally refuting your erroneous theory! 
It does follow and it is totally biblically unlike your “God Himself evangelizing people in Hell right now” (post-cross) theory!
This only happened this way due to the fact the OT people needed spiritual life they could not receive while alive that only Jesus could give to them to go to heaven. Post-cross people have access to this life that the pre-cross people did not have. There is provision already made for post-cross people to receive this spiritual life while they are alive therefore the OT process to receive spiritual life is no longer needed nor will it happen again.
Your unbelief will never change this spiritual truth, Jason.
• Pre-cross Sheol/Hades was divided into 2 parts.
•One held the ones accounted righteous.
• One held the unrighteous or wicked.(as pictured in Luke 16:19-31)
• This was set up this way due to the fact no man could enter heaven with a sin nature and Jesus had yet to go to the cross for life to be available to them.
• This only happened this way due to the fact the OT people needed spiritual life they could not receive while alive that only Jesus could give to them to go to heaven.
• Post-cross people have access to this life that the pre-cross people did not have.
• There is provision already made for post-cross people to receive this spiritual life while they are alive.
None of these points, including in combination, require that Christ shall not and does not continue to successfully evangelize those who are imprisoned in hades for their stubborn disobedience. The logical extent is only that people don’t have to go to the paradise side of hades anymore.
You’re still winking about lost people not (and indeed never) receiving spiritual life instead of receiving spiritual life. That concept is what you think you’re “totally refuting” and so are winking about.
If you want people to believe you feel something else about people not receiving spiritual life, you should try not smirking about it when you think you’ve refuted people’s hope for salvation of sinners from sin in Christ.
The only reason it was set up this way was Post-cross people have access to this life that the pre-cross people did not have. There is provision already made for post-cross people to receive this spiritual life while they are alive therefore the OT process to receive spiritual life is no longer needed nor will it happen again. How do you not understand this, Jason?
The only reason it was set up this way was because Pre cross people did not have access to the spiritual life post cross people do. There is provision already made for post-cross people to receive this spiritual life while they are alive therefore the OT process to receive spiritual life is no longer needed nor will it happen again. How do you not understand this, Jason?
Because your “therefore” does not follow deductively from the premises. (I’m a logician, who has been doing Christian apologetics for twenty years–I keep track of such things.)
You would have to add one or more other premises for your attempted deduction to validly follow. The fact that provisions are made post-cross for people to receive this spiritual life while they are alive, is not mutually exclusive to provision being made made post-cross for people to receive this spiritual life after they have died.
Observe: (1) There is provision already made for post-cross people to receive this spiritual life while they are alive. (2) There is also provision already made for post-cross people to receive this spiritual life after they have died.
Those are not saying opposite things. Both can be true simultaneously. (1) does not “therefore” negate (2).
Nor does adding in the other premises help (1) negate (2) in conjunction. The fact that post-cross people have access to this life through Jesus that pre-cross people did not have, is not mutually exclusive to post-cross people having access to this life through Jesus that pre-cross people did not have (on the contrary they’re completely tautological!)
When you add a premise that logically leads to your therefore, I’ll agree or disagree with that. Until then, no dice.
Congratulations on continuing to ignore why I brought up 1 Peter at all, by the way. (But I figure sooner or later you’ll stop ignoring them and try to copy-paste someone else’s refutation of those details from 1 Peter. If you were going to try yourself, you would have already done so. But you’re welcome to try refuting those details yourself any time.)
Jason
Do you understand the only reason why God set up Pre-cross Sheol/Hades the way he did was because no one could go to heaven when they died? Righteous or unrighteous. Therefore it is the only reason why Jesus had to go to the afterlife and release the spiritual life they needed to go to heaven otherwise there was no need to do this. There is no need to this anymore because spiritual life is now available in this life when it was not before. How do you not understand this, Jason?
Also Luke 16:26 keeps the unrepentant from leaving not the pre-cross people of the days of Noah who repented before they drowned in the flood. 
Not at all. I acknowledge the ones who actually repented before they drowned in the flood were set free. They were not in paradise but in the unrighteous part of Hades. Did you think I thought the disobedient in the days of Noah were in paradise with Abraham?
Jason remember the Ark was a type and shadow of salvation. Only 8 people were saved the ones who drowned went to Hades/ Hell. But the ones who actually repented before they drowned Jesus preached to in Hell they were not in paradise. I call it an example of a death bed conversion. Do we have an understanding now?
Yep! I keep on agreeing with this, righteous or unrighteous, and you keep on pretending I have no idea about it or have not agreed to it.
Yep, I agree with that, too, and agreed with that multiple times already. Righteous or unrighteous, they still needed spiritual life from Jesus, and only Jesus can give it to them.
Obviously, any unrighteous still in hades still don’t have the spiritual life available now in Jesus in this life, and available in Jesus for the righteous in hades, when it was not before.
Seeing as you don’t deny that either (I suppose?!), maybe your hidden premise should be that the unrighteous still in hades don’t need spiritual life.
Because between the two of us, I seem to be the one remembering to keep track that the unrighteous as well as the righteous need spiritual life from Jesus that only Jesus can provide! I don’t stop considering the need of the unrighteous for spiritual life, after the righteous have received spiritual life from Jesus.
Unless that need of the unrighteous is denied, it doesn’t follow otherwise that there is no need to go to the unrighteous jailed for being stubbornly disobedient (wherever they are, even among the dead) to evangelize them and bring them spiritual life so that they may be living according to God in the spirit.
How do you not understand this, Aaron?
Also, 1 Peter 3:18ff isn’t talking about people who repented before they drowned in the flood, but about people who were imprisoned for being disobediently stubborn compared to Noah and his seven relatives. Which you’re obviously going to keep on ignoring.
Between the two of us you seem not to understand that Jesus did evangelize the unrighteous jailed but only the ones who repented before they died in the flood. He did not extend this to the people who did not repent before they died. Their fate is sealed. Luke 16:26.
Well at least you’re finally talking about it now… (at long and tedious last…)
If they had repented before they drowned they would have not been put in jail (the literal term in Greek) for their stubborn disobedience! They would have been put in the paradise for the righteous!–just as death-bed conversions today go where those who were in the paradise for the righteous have gone!
Not coincidentally your previous attempt at an explanation made exactly no mention of people in the unrighteous part of hades being set free. You talked constantly and only about people in the righteous part of hades being set free, and constantly denied that any of those in the unrighteous part of hades were set free. Your whole presentation, here and in other threads, up to now has been that those among the unrighteous in hades are never set free, never receive spiritual life from Christ: not later, not then, and not now.
So if there has been some misunderstanding and you actually acknowledge that not only the righteous hades/paradise but also those “not in paradise but in the unrighteous part of Hades” can and have received spiritual life from Jesus post-mortem, you have only yourself and your constant insistences otherwise to explain why anyone has gotten that notion from you: that the not-yet reconciliation is not extended to people in hell/hades.
Considering that I have been constantly bringing this up myself, against your repeated discussion of the righteous coming out from paradise/hades instead of the unrighteous coming out from hell/hades, I’m not the one who needs reminding of this.
And inasmuch as the Ark was a type and shadow of salvation, then figuratively what happened with the Ark and what happened with the people outside the ark is a type and shadow of salvation today, too. That is quite literally the reason why Peter mentions it at all: because it was still a type and shadow of salvation for his day. And if a type and shadow of salvation for his day, then also for our day, unless you are prepared to claim that baptism is of no relevance today.
Which again is not what Peter says. He says they were jailed for being stubborn in a disobedient way, and compares them a little later in chapter 4 with grossly impenitent sinners trying to entice Christians back into being lost.
But at least you’re up to acknowledging that they were in jail.
You keep referencing a scene set in hades pre-cross like that still holds post-cross, which would be like using that scene as evidence that Abraham is still in the paradise side of hades.
They were stubborn and disobedient because they ignored Noah’s preaching. When the flood came some cried out in repentance before they died and God in his mercy honored that but they still had to go to the unrighteous part of Hades because they did not enter the Ark.
Isaiah 24:18 is a picture what happened in the flood. Isaiah 24:22 is when Jesus went to visit them in the pit. These extreme circumstances in the afterlife will not happen again due to the availability of the completed work of the cross in this life.
Can you show me the scripture that actually says this?
That’s a pretty big leap. At least it has the novelty of being something you haven’t tried before, I guess.
Isaiah 24 says pretty clearly that it is about what will happen in the Day of the Lord to come. Verse 18 is smack-dab in the middle of all that. (Having the windows in the height open up to let out rain is a similar description, but it doesn’t say the earth is destroyed in a flood thereby. It’s only part of a typical descriptive package of the earth being destroyed, along with the inhabitants of the earth being burned by fire in that day for example back at verse 6. Definitely not something that happened in a flood!)
Verse 21, which you skipped over, “So it will happen in that day, that YHWH will punish the host of the height in the height and the kings of the earth on earth,” verse 22 “and they will be gathered toether like prisoners in the pit, and will be confined in prison; and after many days they will be visited.” Verse 23 “The the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed [as symbols of things being worshiped as gods in Isaiah’s day, and afterward] for YHWH of armies will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and His glory will be before His elders.”
I’m glad that even you acknowledge this is talking about Jesus saving sinners post-mortem–I mentioned it in my brief comments about Jude 6 in my webradio debate, too. But nothing here says that this was about sinners destroyed in the flood; everything here is about sinners who will be destroyed in the coming of YHWH (including previously to those verses); and exactly nothing in those verses says they repented before they died. Zero. Nothing.
You are utterly and totally reading that into the data, over against the actual details on the page. You would have been better off trying to use those scriptures as evidence that many days after the impenitent are destroyed in the day of the Lord to come, and confined in prison, they will be punished. (Which is at least a viable alternative translation of the verb at verse 22. Although if I recall correctly everywhere else that term is used in regard to people already being punished and imprisoned, it means to be visited with the goal of saving and freeing them, not to punish them some more.)
That those verses refer to people who died impenitently (though no doubt desperately trying to escape their punishment and failing) fits Peter’s comparison of the dead imprisoned in hades for their stubborn disobedience to currently living sinners whom we should evangelize even if they are trying to drag us back into their rebellions against God: because (among other reasons, though this is the one Peter specifically gives) a day is coming when God will be judging the living as well as the dead. For that reason, the gospel is preached even to the dead.
Again, you would have been better off trying to argue that the gospel is preached even to the dead in hades because a time is coming when God will be judging them after which they will have no hope. That would have at least fit your idea of hopelessness after the Day of the Lord. (But it wouldn’t have fit what Isaiah 24 says about those imprisoned with the coming of the Day of the Lord!)
You should find it very interesting that in your attempt to try to ground the idea (which Peter does not say) that they died repentant but were sent to the hades of the unrighteous anyway, you had to refer to another portion of scripture that not only doesn’t talk about the Flood, and not only doesn’t say the sinners died after repenting (and by the way also has nothing to say about them being sent to one or another portion of hades, although since they clearly died unrepentantly the natural inference is that they went to the punishment side, so I can’t say I blame you for expecting that ), but talks about people in the unrighteous portion of hades being saved by God in the future many days after the triumphant coming of the Day of the Lord!
This has to be considered a step backward for your argument.
This thread, having been started by Aaron Curry (aka “Revival” among other pseudonyms and nicknames on the board), is being locked down pursuant to review of Aaron’s banning from the board. Other threads started by Aaron (and possibly some threads with his majority participation) will also be locked down at the convenience of the ad/mods, in order to protect Aaron from receiving critiques while he is unable to defend himself.