Why teach salvation for all?


#1

WHY TEACH SALVATION FOR ALL?
godfire.net/eby/godwill3.html

A good writing to discuss! :bulb:


#2

Amazing. I wish I had more time to read it right now, but using such staggering numbers like that is a really smart technique. Also, there is some pretty sweet poetry in there.


#3

That’s an interesting article. I look forward to reading more of it. His discussion on 1 Tim. 2:1-6 is encouraging and reminds me of a statement in the Lord’s Pray - “Your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.” In the Present, the flow of salvation is from the Eternal to the Present. Everyone is saved in the Eternal realm of God, and thus we pray for all to embrace the salvation of God in the present. Example: instead of us praying for “Joe” to get into heaven, we should pray for Joe to embrace in the present (on earth) the salvation that he has in Christ (in heaven). Our Eternal Salvation has been accomplished by the sacrifice of Christ, and we recieve that salvation today through faith; so that salvation is truly by Grace (in the eternal) through faith (in the present). Salvation is not about us getting into heaven (for Christ has already accomplished that for us); rather, salvation is about getting heaven into us!


#4

It’s about death and not be being held captive (forever) by it. It’s the Great Hope that humanity is no longer in Adam but in Christ, who was the first to beat it, and by beating that last enemy, will set the captives free. Which was His stated mission.

Any other definitions of ‘salvation’ or ‘being saved’ are lame in comparison. ‘Saved from poverty’ ‘Saved from injustice’ ‘Saved from ignorance’ Yeah, it’s a lot of things - but don’t miss the forest for the trees. In other times, when you were lucky to live to 40 and your children died like flies… they knew what they were saved from. Death. The Great Hope was and is the hero of mankind.

I’ll die soon enough and you will too. Don’t be fooled by religious fluff. Stay focused.


#5

Let me explain my previous post. Everything is about the resurrection - if that is not true, then all the rest is just talking gas. But is it so taken for granted that we often miss the shocking wonder of it. It was mind-blowing to all of the church’s (and the world’s) early generations after the event. Not a myth but a fact witnessed in history.

There is no guarantee that as a Christian that you are going to ‘happy’ as the world (and us!) count happiness. We are all like thieves on the cross with a death sentence on our heads. It’s coming at us like a freight-train and it is impossible to love an enemy who will take everything from you. Death.

People need to be reminded that THAT is what we are saved from…death. Cold and lifeless, forgotten and eternal…if it had not been for Christ. Just a reminder.

If this is all about being sweeter and better people than our neighbor, or more successful, or spiritually superior, or praised by the religious, or getting an ego boost - then this is all in vain. I wonder sometimes if the religious can stop being religious long enough to grasp humanity’s hope as their own, i.e., to join them. To be human, to be a sinner. To be saved from death with them. That might be asking too much.

Meanwhile, we’re supposed to be impressed with their ‘testimonies’ as though a fart and the Great Hope should be granted equal air time. What a world we live in!


#6

Good posts Ran!


#7

Jesus said love you neighbor as your self…we are supposed to be transforming into the image of Christ from glory to glory (2 Cor 3.18) everyday. I’m not a sinner saved by grace anymore ( i used to be) I’m a new creation or new species in Christ. I’m the righteousness of God in Christ. I’m a born again child of the most high God. I’m a saint, not an old sinner. No where in the NT are born again children of God classified as sinners. :wink:


#8

That’s just ego-talk. One day you’ll wake up and it’ll be gone. Then, what will you do? Call on His Grace to save you again? What a roller-coaster you’re on and don’t even know it.


#9

You either accept the word of God or you don’t…its just that simple, Ran. :wink:


#10

Not totally true, Ran; there is a sense in which we are a new creation in Christ, it just takes time to fully manifest like anything natural does. If this weren’t true, it’d mean that the statement that Christ gives us new life is for all intents and purposes meaningless.

I think you’re right about Aaron himself, though; he isn’t producing what we would recognize as fruit of the Spirit but using the energy to obtain it to instead prematurely to talk big, when goodness has no need to assert itself.

Like peacocks wandering the walkways of the zoo,
Who have twice the autonomy the giraffes and the tigers do,
Saying,
“No one can stop me! No one can stop me!
No one clips my claws…
Now everyone watch me! Everyone watch me
Scale these outside walls!”

Oh you, pious and profane!
Put away your praise and blame,
A glass can only spill what it contains!
To the perpetually plain, the incurably inane
A glass can only spill what it contains!


#11

Acceptance of the truth is always through one’s paradigm - it’s like a filter or a lens. So we both can say that the Holy Spirit opened our eyes and resides in us to help us with that ‘filtering’ - of which, because we’re human, entails all sorts of factors: gender, dna, experience, culture, intelligence, etc.

No one believes exactly as you (or me) on all points (including minutia which can grow into schism). So to say that one ‘simply holds the truth’ over another who is saying the same thing is to miss Paul’s observation that we ALL are looking through a veil at all this - so the beginning of wisdom is to admit the truth that one is half-blind like everyone else, and human in spite of whatever ‘gifts’ one may perceive to possess.

I accept that truth from Paul, who put no confidence in himself. He didn’t help to convert whole regions of the earth by expecting a minutia lock-step. He preached Christ crucified and resurrected. The first of humanity. Simple is good.


#12

Well, I love Aaron - he’s full of vigor and certitude. But he has some things to learn…all those gray areas where certitude must give way to faith - that’s tough on the old ego. He’s allowed religion to dehumanize himself. He’s a patsy. Every Christian has the ability to stand outside of religion. He really hasn’t done that yet.

Loved the poem. Is it yours?