To those of you who still attend a church that teaches ETC, What things within the Sunday morning meetings do you find that causes you to want to worship? I was listening to Francis Chan’s Crazy Love and all the reasons that he gave to worship were found in nature, yet it has been my experience that the church has taught that God can only be found within the boundaries of the Christian church.
I find God in nature very much, and disagree that He can only be found in the Church–perhaps some churches have taught that, but I don’t think all. That would make no sense of Paul’s claim that He has revealed himself through creation, and David’s saying that the heavens declare His glory and the earth His praise!
In church I enjoy and can worship through much of the singing and much of the teaching as well. I tend to look for the things I can agree with more than I look for the things I disagree with–though I do take note when I do, and consider the difference (reasons for it, in what way my view has changed, the possibility that I might be wrong, how serious I think the difference is, etc). And even if a message has much that I disagree with in it, I can still take joy in the passage itself. 
I would have more difficulty in some churches than I do in my current church.
There’s also fellowship with friends at church, which is no small thing. James teaches us that true religion is in meeting the needs of our brethren, and I think that is worship too.
I would also say that church is not necessary for worship.
Do I remember right that you’re attending a Reformed Calvinist church?
Sonia
I find myself doing this quite a bit also. It’s like mental gymnastics.And I also agree with Sonia that even if I disagree with a lot of the message, that the text, itself, is always stimulating.
I tend to think worship is not about a church service at all, though it’s nice to gather with other believers, but about the way we live our lives. It’s not really how loudly we sing, but about how we love.
I do love to sing words that are encouraging, though, and am usually, in my head, affirming more than the average person next to me. I just love it when certain songs are so clearly universalistic and, surprisingly, there are quite a few. I look around and wonder if anyone else is hearing the words.
I, too like Sonia, have found that my current church is a better fit than some others around my area that are more dogmatic about certain issues. I would have a very hard time, I think, attending some of those.
I totally agree, I’ve found that too!
Which songs in particular?
We sang this one in church Saturday night: youtube.com/watch?v=-08YZF87OBQ
Hillsong - Mighty to Save - With Subtitles/Lyrics - Mighty to Save DVD
Everyone needs compassion,
Love that’s never failing;
Let mercy fall on me.
Everyone needs forgiveness,
The kindness of a Saviour;
The Hope of nations.
Saviour, He can move the mountains,
My God is Mighty to save,
He is Mighty to save.
Forever, Author of salvation,
He rose and conquered the grave,
Jesus conquered the grave.
So take me as You find me,
All my fears and failures,
Fill my life again.
I give my life to follow
Everything I believe in,
Now I surrender.
My Saviour, He can move the mountains,
My God is Mighty to save,
He is Mighty to save.
Forever, Author of salvation,
He rose and conquered the grave,
Jesus conquered the grave.
Shine your light and let the whole world see,
We’re singing for the glory of the risen King…Jesus (x2)
My Saviour, He can move the mountains,
My God is Mighty to save,
He is Mighty to save.
Forever, Author of salvation,
He rose and conquered the grave,
Jesus conquered the grave.
My Saviour, you can move the mountains,
You are mighty to save,
You are mighty to save.
Forever, Author of Salvation,
You rose and conquered the grave,
Yes you conquered the grave
Funny you said that. I remember the first time I heard it and wanted to scream " Do you hear what its saying?"
Nimblewill, I was trying to remember the songs when I said that and couldn’t think of specific ones. I’ll have to pay more attention. Maybe my dad remembers. He’s so funny because when we sing them we glance over at each other as if to say, “Did you catch that?!” I remember some lyrics saying all will come and of course that every knee will bow. There is one in particular that is very universalistic.I’m going to see if I can figure out what it’s called.
Unfortunately, the downside of a house church is that we don’t get to sing very often, mainly only at combined services. Anyway, I’ll have to write them down next time so I remember 
Here’s another (is this the one you were thinking of Amy?): youtube.com/watch?v=EIIAf2lS_Us
Mark Schultz - Love Has come
Well, I know this life is filled with sorrow
And there are days when the pain just lasts and lasts
But I know there will come a day
When all our tears are washed away with a break in the clouds
His glory coming down and in that moment
Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess
That God is love and love has come for us all
Every heart set free, every one will see
That God is love and love has come for us all
For anybody who has ever lost a loved one
And you feel like you had to let go too soon
I know it hurts to say goodbye
But don’t you know it’s just a matter of time till the tears are gonna end
You’ll see them once again and in that moment
Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess
That God is love and love has come for us all
Every heart set free, every one will see
That God is love and love has come for us all
Oh, and on that day we will stand amazed
At our Savior, God and King
Just to see the face of amazing grace
As our hearts rise up and sing
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Thank You for the cross
Singing glory, glory, hallelujah
Christ has paid the cost
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Thank You for the cross
Singing glory, glory
Christ has paid the cost
And every knee shall bow, every tongue confess
That God is love and love has come for us all
Every heart set free, every one will see
That God is love and love has come for us all
Love has come for us all
Love has come for us all
And every knee shall bow, every tongue confess
God is love and love has come for us all
Every heart set free, every one will see
God is love and love has come for us all
Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess
God is love and love has come for us all
Every heart set free, every one will see
God is love and love has come for us all
No Sonia, not that one, but those lyrics are pretty straightforward aren’t they? I think there are more songs than we realize.
There are a lot! I’ll take notes next week so I can remember.
Sonia
How about this one?
Now is the time to worship
Come, now is the time to worship
Come, now is the time to give your heart
Come, just as you are to worship
Come, just as you are before your God
Come
One day every tongue will confess You are God
One day every knee will bow
Still, the greatest treasure remains for those
Who gladly choose You now
Yea AllanS, you nailed the song I was thinking of! And oh how I was trying to recall it too! This is the one, Sonia!
I know this is an odd question to ask…But how exactly does one worship?
I’m not a “Mary had a little lamb” Christian when it comes to alot of the academic stuff, like theology, or in life-application of verses, which…I suppose is really just the applied continuation of the academic stuff. But when it comes to expressing “worship” I can’t seem to really “get it”, atleast when it comes to what I think of worship, all the singing, dancing, arm waving, eye-closed stuff, shouting amen, praise the Lord, etc. Not that I don’t love him of course, I very much do! I just have a hard time not being…uh…“puritan”?
I’m a very happy, and expressive person, artistic, and talkative, and even singing occasionally - except when it comes to worship, and that bothers me a little. Even at a youthful pentecostal church I used to attend I wasn’t all that into clapping, dancing, and jumping, or running…I felt really awkward…Went to my grandparents Church of Christ (no musical instruments) for a week - spiritually bored to death, and I still felt awkward, especially because I didn’t like the denomination at all. And then went regularly to a Baptist church for a while. I would sing, but I felt supremely fake doing so. It just wasn’t “enough” so to speak, then again I didn’t feel very welcome either. I didn’t go to church all that much as a kid, but I studied Christianity from a very academic point of view - it wasn’t until recently (the past four or five years) that I really got into a deep personal relationship, beyond the realm of what was more or less just Theology.
But in light of this, I don’t really know how to “worship”, I can pray - but I find myself kind of drab and stiff when it comes to certain things. Lately my prayers have been;
“God I want to learn how to have fun with you! I want to be childlike again, where everything was both learning, as well as play!”
“I want to stop the religious, the theological, the separation of sacred from secular, I want to live in to be a real Christian where you are more than just my prayer life, or studies, and where my relationship with you is not just religion with the relationship spliced in.”
“I’m so tired of theology, my facebook page is nothing but theological posts, and I feel like I have such little variety that I am boring even, and have no actual life beyond trying to “learn how to live”.”
“I don’t want to make religion everything about my life, but I also don’t want to make everything about my life “religious”. I want to be genuinely spiritual!”
And…pardon this next one…but I did actually pray this…But I think God might have gotten a giggle out of it…lol
“Father! If I fart I want it to be spiritual!”
But I suppose what I’m trying to say is, even as a Universalist, I find it difficult to worship God in a childlike way, or expressively. Anyone have any advice? And has anyone had this kind of experience? Or is it just me? 
lol
Lefein,
I sure appreciate your honesty. I have felt this too. I started to think God cares more about how we treat others than whether we have the right view.
I’m no expert at worship, but I sure do like the way you talk honestly to God. I’m sure this is so wrong, but I can remember when I was younger feeling very comfortable with God and calling him dude. 
(w/no disrespect for him, of course! Hard to imagine now.)
I think talking to God is a form of worship. It’s really just what is in your heart, I think. I wouldn’t know what to recommend that you would enjoy singing more. I enjoy being reminded of God’s promises and when I can sing them it’s encouraging to me. Lately, I’ve been more convicted than anything. And it was just a few weeks ago I had to leave because the words made me cry. I wanted to sing them and I couldn’t. It is nice to be able to declare God as wonderful in song, but maybe other people benefit from doing this in others way, such as yourself? I know my husband has a particulary hard time worshipping in song because he has such a melodic ear that everything he hears he critiques and most of it he says is terribly written.
I’m sure we all would benefit, not just in our singing, from being real, childlike, getting away from the memorized stuff, and seeing things fresh.
Leifen, this is the reason I started this post.
I think I experience real worship when I am on the river trout fishing or walking though the woods, or sitting on the beach at sunset. In the stillness of this I remove all the stuff that I’ve allowed to get between me and God. I can see and hear him more clearly. Sometimes I do sing songs when I’m out there, sometimes Bible verses come to mind, sometimes I talk, sometimes I listen. Some of the best times I’ve had with God was when I was sitting by myself smoking my pipe. I am told constantly that I need to worship corporately and I do but I too sometimes feel like a fake. I sing and lead worship, but too often it seems like I am performing. True worship is never at a particular place (see John 4) and I don’t think there is a particular method. It is always in Spirit and in Truth. What ever that means? and it always gives me peace and left feeling loved.
These are encouraging replies.
Nimblewill: I too found, that in my prayer life when I’d discuss some of the “normal” things with him, rather than try to have philosophical, and theological discussions…I felt a whole lot happier about it, and prayed more effectively. Lol, I suppose that’s God’s way of saying; “I know you don’t want to talk about religion, so I’m not going to empower you to try and appease me that way - talk about the stuff that is important to you, it is important to me too.”
Amy:
Yes! But how to do that…lol, how to teach it even lol. Maybe this whole idea is what God means by “born again from above”…
We sang this hymn tonight at church:
The Love of God
(btw, they leave out the 2nd verse in this video, but I’ve included it below)
The love of God is greater far
Than tongue or pen can ever tell;
It goes beyond the highest star,
And reaches to the lowest hell;
The guilty pair, bowed down with care,
God gave His Son to win;
His erring child He reconciled,
And pardoned from his sin.
Refrain
O love of God, how rich and pure!
How measureless and strong!
It shall forevermore endure
The saints’ and angels’ song.
When years of time shall pass away,
And earthly thrones and kingdoms fall,
When men, who here refuse to pray,
On rocks and hills and mountains call,
God’s love so sure, shall still endure,
All measureless and strong;
Redeeming grace to Adam’s race—
The saints’ and angels’ song.
Refrain
Could we with ink the ocean fill,
And were the skies of parchment made,
Were every stalk on earth a quill,
And every man a scribe by trade,
To write the love of God above,
Would drain the ocean dry.
Nor could the scroll contain the whole,
Though stretched from sky to sky.
Refrain
There’s just so much more to rejoice about when you know God is reconciling everything He created, rather than just a small group.