The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Writing an Evangelical Universalist "Chick Tract"

Evangelical Universalism
#21

Good point about “Matthew 5:29-30, 10:28” and Ezekiel.

Please note that I only included excerpts …mainly to show the way the artwork looks. I am not defending them but they always do talk about Jesus and present the gospel … at least the traditional Arminian/Semi-Pelagian gospel. By only putting in excerpts I did not mean to misrepresent them. The whole tract is here chick.com/reading/tracts/0079/0079_01.asp .

Note that I added some extra pages from the tract to my previous post to make it more representative of the overall Chick message.

#22

Perhaps we could show the originator of Chick Tracts dying and seeing many unexpected people in heaven who got saved after death. :smiley:

#23

The thing I like about the other plot is the surprise plot twist where he actually does leave hell and go to heaven. This story you propose, while it has some merit, just seems to lack much of a story plot. But this thread is here to discuss what story we want, so lets discuss it and together decide which of these plots (or maybe something different) to use. :slight_smile:

Here’s another story idea. Maybe we could have a Calvinist pastor who has a back slidden alcoholic father die, and this gets him thinking about eternal torment, and ends up finding out that a friend is universalist…

I have days where I abhor the use of the word hell. I have other days where it doesn’t bother me to use it, as long as I make sure everyone in the conversation knows I am speaking of temporary rehabilitative punishment and not eternal torment.

Good, I was wondering what the average length was. This gives us something to work with. :slight_smile:

#24

Well, one of my complaints with the Chick Tracts is that they do not appear to follow logic… and it seems coherence and sense gives way to, as you put it, “plot twists”. I would hate to misrepresent UR in the name of some plot twist.

Why would someone go to Hell and then go to Heaven? Surely they’ll go either to Hell or Heaven, and then stay there for a while? Why would God screw with people by making them think they’re going to what they consider eternal first?

#25

Do you have any Scriptural evidene that it must be either one or the other? As a Baptist, Scripture is the final authority in matters of faith for me. Jesus speaks much about hell in the Gospels. In Rvelations, we see humans thrown into the Lake of Fire. Therefore I believe it exists. The Bible also tells us all will be saved. And that Christ will defeat death, which includes the second death. Obviously some go to hell, but obviously they will be delivered.

#26

Due to the aversion of some towards the classical Christian Universalist view of hell (temporary and rehabilitative), I think it may be wise to scrap the current story idea and think of another.

Here’s one I previously mentioned before:

And a couple other ideas that has been brought up:

Any other ideas and/or votes for any of these ideas?

#27

I’m thinking that throwing ideas into the ring is a good thing for the creatives – to help stir up the thought process; get things going for them. They’re not likely to actually take our ideas as is. It doesn’t work that way for me, I know. I may hear an idea from someone, and it adds a little spark to the mix, but they would never know that they had influenced me just by looking at the final product.

So . . . when I toss something out there, my goal is more to stir the pot than to have my idea “chosen.” We (hardly any of us) don’t even share a basic structure of UR beliefs on this forum, and the bible doesn’t tell us specifically how things will fit together. It hints, of course, and I think most of us are at least developing a consistent picture that works for us. Chick tracts are nothing if not sensationalistic, flamboyant, and typically sloppy theology. If the symbolism is reasonable, that’s probably as good as it gets here. :wink:

All the same, I think it IS a good idea to at least try for some scriptural verity, avoid putting things in that we know are false (and yet widely believed) just because they make a good visual. A good poet doesn’t use words just because they have the right sound and rhythm. They also have to convey the right meaning, or he finds another word – or rephrases the whole stanza, if necessary. It’s a dance. It all has to work together.

Blessings, Cindy

#28

obviously off topic, sorry, but just my take on this is that there is the judgement first, and then the punishment. i don’t believe anyone simply dies and goes to either heaven or hell…
i think Scripture is pretty plain that you die and then are resurrected unto judgement…well, if you come from the premise that hell is a literal place, which is arguable.

for me, the chick tracks are so revolting all i can do to combat them is tell everyone who mentions one to me how blasphemously vile i find those tracts and how patently wrong and anti-Biblical every aspect of them is.

#29

Good point, James

Personally I would have concerns over using the Chick Tracts ‘format’ at all, because of their negative connotations, and the potential for confusing more naive readers. Also, wouldn’t there be copyright issues, perhaps?

The best thing to do with Chick Tracts in my opinion is to collect every extant printed copy and make a jolly nice bonfire out of them. But that probably wouldn’t help, and I don’t approve of book burning. (Or indeed record burning. It still bugs me when I see old footage of folk torching Beatles records after John Lennon’s infamous “we’re more popular than Jesus now” interview. As Eric Idle quips in The Rutles, “album sales skyrocketed; people were buying them *just *to burn them”. :smiley: )

Actually, if you guys really *are *going to do a Chick Tract, how about doing something featuring a famous atheist - John Lennon is the poster boy for lots of atheist organisations, I believe. Might cause a little bit of a stir. And in fact, given that we EUs believe that John Lennon will be in Heaven along with everybody else …

Just a thought.

Shalom

Johnny

#30

There’s no scriptural evidence for any of this, tbh. Scripture is extremely obscure on the afterlife.

This doesn’t answer my original inquiry. I don’t see Hell as being the redistribution place. Heck, I don’t see Hell as a place.

#31

I doubt anyone has a copyright on the tract format, which is basically a comic book. We definitely don’t have to do them like Chick did them, of course. I was thinking of a more expansive list of stories of the sort that stood out for me when I first became a Christian. Of God being there for someone depressed. Of a loving person who gets a lot of crap being raised up. Of some things in this life making sense that typically don’t. Of being dead to this world.

Chick’s obsession with the afterlife only shows how shallow his understanding of Christianity is.

#32

I have always said (even when I believed in eternal torment), that the Gospel presentation needs to be revised for modern times. During the great awakening, fire and damnation sermons worked to bring people to Christ. It was a different culture then, however. Everyone believed in an afterlife. Today, telling someone who doesn’t believe in an afterlife, or even someone who is agnostic about it, that they are going to hell will do nothing for them. Instead, we should emphasize the many benefits that Christianity brings in this lifetime. For example, joy, transformed lives, a community bound together by faith, etc.

However, since we are universalists, our beliefs on the afterlife are what set us apart from traditional Christians. While we shouldn’t emphasize it over other things, we shouldn’t be afraid to talk about it either. In a Christian Universalist tract, the afterlife needs mentioned, maybe even emphasized, simply because its our main distinctive.

#33

Personally, I think it’s Jesus we should be emphasizing. “If I be lifted up I will draw all people unto Me.”

#34

I couldn’t sleep tonight, so I decided to write this. I tried to keep it as neutral as possible between the different camps of Christian Universalism (regardless of whether they believe in a hell or not). Would this be acceptable to everyone? If you find anything objectionable, let me know and we can work on revising it.

#35

Hahahaha, I like it. Especially the scripture quoting.

#36

Great first draft on a sleepless night :smiley:

#37

Thanks. :slight_smile: ome of my best work is when I am sleep deprived. In my English Composition classe in college, each paper was written the night before it was due (often finished an hour before class!), and I always got "A"s. Lol.

Anyways, any suggestions on how it can be improved?

#38

I cannot think of anything now, but are you a comic artist or know one?

#39

Sounds good to me bro :slight_smile: I think you should run with it :slight_smile:

Just a couple suggestions… maybe include someone from another religious background that the reverend sees in heaven, like a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Wiccan, or someone like that, and then the reverend could ask Jesus if all roads lead to God then, and then Jesus could respond with something like ‘No… I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by Me… but nevertheless, no matter how dark or rocky one’s road may be, I am the Shepherd who will not abandon or give up on his sheep, and I will bring them all home, each in their own time… so there are none who come to the Father apart from Me… but all will come to the Father because of me…’ and then you could have some scripture to support that. :slight_smile:

Another suggestion, when the reverend wonders how anyone could be saved after death, Jesus could refer to Revelation and also to the Song Of Solomon, saying something like ‘Do you remember? I hold the keys to death and the grave. And My love is stronger than death.’ And then the scripture references to support. :slight_smile:

And instead of Jesus calling him ‘my servant’ at the end, He could call him ‘my child’. :slight_smile:

Well, that’s all I can think of, thought those might be a couple good points to touch on. :slight_smile: Just my two cents :slight_smile:

Blessings to you :slight_smile:

#40

No, I am not one. My artistic skills are quite… well, lets just say my artistic skills wouldn’t even give a kindergartener a run for their money. Lol. I was kinda hoping we could reruit one from here…

Any amateur cartoonists here on EU forums?