The Evangelical Universalist Forum

"You must do nothing to come to Jesus" vs "This is what you must do now"

Theology
#108

But a better translation here is “put away,” not “divorce”:

“but I – I say to you, that whoever may put away his wife, save for the matter of whoredom, doth make her to commit adultery; and whoever may marry her who hath been put away doth commit adultery.”
Mt. 5:32 Young’s Literal Translation.

Whoever ‘putteth away’ his wife (husband) commits adultery! This practice was cruel and was adulterous, but it was not divorce. This New Testament word, translated ‘put away’ is a form of the Greek word ‘apoluo’. It is the word in Greek which parallels the Hebrew word ‘shalach’ – ‘put away.’

The Old Testament Hebrew word for divorce, ‘keriythuwth’, and the New Testament Greek word, ‘apostasion’ also parallel. The Arndt-Gingrich Lexicon of the New Testament cites usage of the word ‘apostasion’ as the technical term for a bill or writing of divorce as far back as 258 B.C.

‘Apoluo,’ the Greek word for ‘putting away’, was not technically divorce, though often used synonymously. In that age of total male domination men often took additional wives and did not provide written release when they forsook wives and married others. The Jewish law demanding written divorce in Deuteronomy 24:1-2 was largely ignored. If a man married another woman, so what? If a man ‘put away’ (apoluo) his wife without bothering with a written divorce, who was going to object? The woman?

… The distinction between ‘put away’ and ‘divorce,’ between the Greek ‘apoluo’ and ‘apostasion’ is critical. Apoluo indicated that the women were enslaved, put away, with no rights, no recourse; deprived of the basic right to monogamous marriage. Apostasion ended marriage and permitted a legal subsequent marriage. The paper makes the difference. (“…then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.”) (Deut. 24:1b – 2)

There are passages other than Luke 16:17-18 above where Jesus spoke on this matter. They include Matthew 19:9, Mark 10:10-12 (where Mark records that Jesus laid down the same law for women as for men), and Matthew 5:32. Jesus used a form of the word ‘apoluo’ (put away) eleven times in these passages. In every passage he forbade ‘apoluo’ or ‘putting away’. Not once did He forbid giving ‘apostasion’, a written divorce, required by Jewish law.
(From Bruce D. Allen, “Divorce and Remarriage.”]

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#109

MM - I keep forgetting that Jesus does not matter any more. A tough habit for me to break. :LOL

#110

You guys are comical… I love the brotherly ribbing. :grinning:

#111

It kind of reminds me, of this great pair of friends!

#112

Quote any translation you please. They all quote Jesus as saying essentially the same thing—namely that divorce and remarriage is adultery.

#113

DaveB, I appreciate this.:grinning:

There are many things that lead me to my odd beliefs which do not agree with mainstream Christianity. I may be wrong, who knows? But, here are a few that you and others may want to consider, and tell me what you think.

  1. If the way, the truth and the light are what brings salvation, then God would have made them known in the beginning so that none should perish. He wouldn’t have waited thousands of years to reveal it. According to Paul, such things are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made.
  2. If Israel was to be the light God the world, then God would have given them the light.
  3. If Jesus’ words are the words of the God of Israel and they are the way, the truth and the light then the Levitical law was neither the word of the God of Jacob/Israel, nor the way. As it said, God’s word does not change. It is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
    4.Again, as Paul says, " although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, but became futile in their thoughts and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man". So God was known prior to Jesus.
  4. If you strip away all the foolish commandments of men that are written in the Levitical law, then what you have left are the things that Jesus taught which, I believe is what Abraham was following before the Levitical law entered in and became the dominant faith.

Hermano, this is probably why the prophets keep repeating the command to take care of the widow.

So my question is why just sexual immorality? If your wife tries to murder you, I’d say this might be a cause for divorce.

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#114

Note - the above is repeating the statement of DaveB

For me … Red Hot.

#115

I love Laurel and Hardy! And thank God for Hal Roach supporting them—he also did the “Our Gang-Little Rascals” comedies.

And I have gotten many laughs from Abbott and Costello, Jerry Lewis, Soupy Sales, and even Jim Carrey, …on those rare occasions when he is not over-the-top vulgar:

(But even certain of his vulgar stuff has provided me guilty pleasure:)

#116

More cavalcade of convenience LLC… the same yesterday, today and tomorrow — but NOW because Jesus’ unchanging words don’t suit your agenda you seem more than happy to let Jesus’ all too important words gently slide by; again how convenient. :roll_eyes:

#117

Tend to think you are apart of it.:slightly_smiling_face:

#118

So are there any things in this modern age (beside the obvious infidelity clause of Jesus) that you would consider grounds for divorce?

#119

Yes, of course. Physical violence for example. And it’s not only male violence against women. Some women have been violent against their husbands. But whatever might be the grounds, I think Jesus would have considered remarriage as adultery.

#120

So physical violence is in your understanding grounds for divorce even though the scripture does not state such?

#121

The Greek word used in Matthew 5:32 is “απολυω.” The word means “loose from.” It has been formed from two words, “απο” which means “from” and “λυω” which means “loose.”

To be loosed from the bonds of matrimony sounds an awful lot like divorce to me.

#122

Jesus spoke of divorcing one’s wife for ANY reason other than “whoredom,” (that is, if she engages in prostitution). Only in that case would remarriage NOT be adultery according to Jesus.

#123

Don, lets get real in the real world. If a friend came to you and she said her husband was beating her and she was wanting to separate from him, would you agree with her?

#124

Of course I would agree with her. I would agree to a divorce. I thought I had clearly explained all that! Jesus didn’t say people couldn’t divorce for any particular reason. Once again, He said if for any reason at all, if a man divorces and remarries, he is committing adultery. (He seemed to be speaking only of a man who divorces his wife, though one could apply it the other way round, I’m sure). But Jesus gave ONE and only one exception in which divorcing one’s wife and remarrying would NOT be adultery. If one’s wife becomes a prostitute, then if her husband divorces and remarries, he is NOT committing adultery.

#125

So you are saying that if a man beats his wife from your understanding of God’s law or your understanding, that she has no standing to separate from the man… In other words divorce him?

#126

Sure - how about coercive control by a man who is a narcissistic psychopath?

#127

How do we know if Jesus even said these words? The Bible is not my God, nor was it Jesus’ God. If it was, then He would have been teaching the Levitical law, things such as these:
Lev.24:19 “If a man causes disfigurement of his neighbor, as he has done , so shall it be done to him-fracture for fracture, eye for eye…”
or that it is a sin to have a baby etc.

If a man is beating his wife, or vice versa, he has forsaken his vow to love, honor and cherish. He is no longer living in the Spirit.
Besides this, as DaveB points out here;

Why are there marriage vows in the first place? If you didn’t swear that you would be with this person for the rest of your life, I suppose there would be no need for a divorce.