The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Believers and Unbelievers committing the Irremediable sin!

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#1

Everyone

UR has a major dilema when It comes to the irremediable eternal sin to balspheme the Holy Spirit. It totally contradicts UR theology. I want to reiterate the extreme examples of both believers and unbelievers committing this sin that Jesus said is irremediable. I want to focus your attention on Rev 16:9;11 & Hebrews 6:4-8; 10-26-29; 2 Peter 2:20-22.

Rev 16:9 “And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.” Verse 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

These two verses are a perfect example of an unbeliever being so irreversibly hardened by lives given over to sin that even when the end comes and being scorched by fire… they are beyond repentance, and continue to blaspheme. They have every opportunity to repent and receive mercy, but they choose to blaspheme God instead. Their hearts and minds are so hardened toward God they are beyond the thought of seeking forgiveness and therefore will never receive it. Al Maxey said “The person living in this sin will continue in his stubborn resistance, with blasphemous, outspoken mockery of the work of the Holy Ghost, until the end. The sin is not unpardonable on account of its greatness, but on account of its nature of rejecting all pardon”.

AL Maxey said “Hebrews 6:4-8 speaks of those who have been enlightened spiritually, and who “have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” but who then have fallen away. Of these it is said, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Why? Because they have partaken of God’s best … and have rejected it (this would also be a good time to read and reflect upon the chilling words found in 2 Peter 2:20-22). Those persons “who go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth” have placed themselves in a position where “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries” (Heb. 10:26-27). Such people have “insulted the Spirit of grace” (vs. 29). It is a hardness of heart and mind that insults the Holy Spirit, and leaves one with absolutely no hope of forgiveness. There is a harsh reality proclaimed repeatedly in Scripture – men may resist and grieve and insult God’s Spirit only for so long; then the Lord abandons them to themselves. Whenever this happens, they are beyond recovery!”

The state of apostasy is far worse than the state of ignorance( 2 Peter 2:20-21). Apostasy is a point of no return. When a believer renounces Jesus…there is no forgiveness. Al Maxey said “Why is this state characterized as being forever beyond forgiveness? In my view, it is NOT because God would not be willing to extend forgiveness to them if it were truly sought, but because when one has become this hardened in heart and mind that forgiveness will never be sought.”

Redemption from the lake of fire?
JRP vs. Matt Slick on the Sin Against the Holy Spirit
#2

That’s not true. He will remain faithful even if we are not. We all remain forgiven & redeemed.

Christ is not the fickle & faithless sinner you make Him out to be. He does not match our faithlessness with the same, as if that were possible.

#3

Not according to Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-29; 2 Peter 2:20-22. This is not my opinion, Ran , but what has been established in scripture. There are other scriptures I can use for an example, but these are sufficient. We must comply by God’s way to receive and maintain forgiveness, not our own.

#4

Besides Ran’s human reasoning, I hear crickets. Tell MacDonald and Talbott they are most welcome to this discussion. Bring on all the grand pooh-bahs. :laughing: You too, Jason. :wink:

#5

Because you’ve just posted the same thing all over again regardless of our responses to you.

I’ve already told you that this is speculation, that people would come to a point where they would never repent. Scripture even contradicts this notion. I just don’t see how man’s strength could outlast God’s.

#6

Aaron,
That verse only says that they didn’t repent at that time. Your other challenges are more substantial by far.
Ro

#7

What verse are you referring to?

#8

:laughing: The other challenges are un-challengable (atleast with biblical evidence which Jason has already conceded to) I’m just adding to the dilema of UR with more biblical evidence against it with other subjects. Roof, when you grasp the truth of the irremediable sin to blaspheme the Holy Spirit with unbelief, there is no need for other challenges. This destroys the foundation of UR. Yea, I agree, its dormoralizing enough to UR given the New Testament, and especially the book of Revelation, does not mention souls repenting and being redeemed from the lake of fire.The mere mention of one person being plucked from their torment, having their name added to the Lamb’s book of life, and entering the city of God would shed so much light on this subject. But that won’t happen because its “No where recorded in the bible” :wink:

#9

Boy, you sure have an imagination. :unamused:

#10

UR could say that there is no example of one person being tormented forever.

#11

First of all, the Bible is clear that unredeemed men will dwell forever in hell. Jesus’ own words confirm that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed will last as long as that of the unredeemed in hell. Matthew 25:46 says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous.(GQ.org) If you disregard what has been established in God’s word, yea, you can say or believe anything you want. Neither are there examples of flying unicorns. But I guarantee you there are some people who believe it and you can’t tell them otherwise, sound familiar? :laughing: :mrgreen:

#12

Not true. We are already redeemed and forgiven - God will maintain that. He’s the one who is faithful.

One either believes that or tries to redeem themselves. It depends on what foundation one wishes to stand on.

#13

Oh boy, Ran. If you disregard what has been established in God’s word, yea, you can say or believe anything you want. Have you not been accused in the past being a few groceries short of a full bag? ( Dondi) J/K, Ran :laughing: I love ya and so does Jesus! :smiley:

#14

Not true. The Bible is clear that Christ redeemed all of humanity. There is not a sinner that He did not redeem. To say that you are a better sinner because you believe something else - that He redeemed you when you believe that He redeemed you - but by that you must admit that He redeemed no one. Horrible theology bending Christ’s accomplishment to fit…an opinion.

Have it your way - but please don’t call that anything more than your opinion.

#15

Is true. If you want to respond biblically to a comment from the OP, Ran, go ahead, but these “Not true”, human reasoning responses are not what I’m looking for.

Btw, you left out this: Jesus’ own words confirm that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed will last as long as that of the unredeemed in hell. Matthew 25:46 says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous.(GQ.org) If you want to discuss this further go to the thread that talks about it, not here, please.

#16

Not true by your own injection of opinion into scripture. They are goats, not ‘unsaved’ unredeemed sub-humans you are making them out to be. They will confess Christ and glorify God. You think your confession saves you but will not allow the same for others. It’s always the pharisees who shut the gates in mens faces and declare it a service that God cannot do without.

They will be saved by God’s grace just as everyone else.

#17

The goats are symbolic of the unrighteous or unsaved… go to the appropriate thread , Ran, and rant your human reasoning about it here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=968&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

#18

I just realized what keeps Aaron so strong in his viewpoints, duh. He’s tugging the party line. “Pretty much everyone believes this!” He probably believes what he does so that he can feel acceptable to others, otherwise why would he keep trying to use social stigmas to convert us to his way of thinking?

This is unwise, Aaron. One day you may awake to a sense of “burning” regret knowing that you chose your beliefs and lifestyle for the wrong reason, and you’ll feel the heat of your own hatred burning secretly against yourself, and then you will have to walk the long way back home and fulfill your debt of love to the others you’ve sinned against with your religious attitude.

#19

Or like the disciples who would stop the little children from coming to the Master… “Let them come,” he says. :sunglasses:

Sonia

#20

Right, Sonia. Much of what we call religion is about exclusion. But if there is one underlying theme to the Gospel it is that salvation is FREE. Given out like water, ‘Come on, come and drink it!’ So we see Christ preaching that to the dead sinners from the flood while He was with them.

Who then is excluded? Dead unrepentant sinners? No.

The religious set the limits of what God can do. They set the measure and expect God’s grace and love to abide by it. A grace and love that is boundless according to Paul, that is, without measure. Aaron thinks he knows something - but it’s a limited knowledge in every aspect of the term.

For example: Aaron can warn men but he cannot lift Christ up as the hero of humanity. It’s a truncated message - the ones he warns cannot love the One who will torment their loved ones. A half-Gospel is no Gospel. But he is stuck in the religion of his choice and will remain there - his ego is too large to admit error. Religious pride is deadly, like a snake bite. And he is bitten, there is no mistaking that.