Of course not. Just read Rev 20:11-15 for yourself and see if there is any more names added to the book of life after the final judgment. If you don’t see this happening that is because it doesn’t. And if names were added after final judgment God would of recorded it. I have already addressed Rev 21:24. Pray about this snitzel, and ask the Holy Spirit to either confirm or deny what I’m saying. I pray that your eyes are enlightened. God bless.
But I have Scriptures that say that all will be saved. They say that explicitly and unambiguously, and even here, I have what look a whole lot like those that were God’s enemies being redeemed after His judgment. And the more I pray and ask the Holy Spirit about this, the more it’s confirmed. So unless you have Scripture explicitly saying that it’s impossible for someone’s name to be added to the Book of Life after the Judgment, I’ll have to reject that view and go with what I see in the Bible.
Aaron, with respect, It would be very helpful to those of us who are ‘old-timers’ here to know just which things you no longer support or we’ll be bringing incorrect prior knowldge from your previous posts to bear on what you are saying now (which would be unfair on you).
so in those older threads when you were adamant you were correct, were you then NOT building doctrine on rock?
why are you so sure you’ve got it right now?
Since we’re in John’s Revelation, I’m very partial to this bit from Ch 5:
“And I heard every created thing in heaven and on earth and under the earth [in [b]Hades, the place of departed spirits] and on the sea and all that is in it, crying out together, To Him Who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be ascribed the blessing and the honor and the majesty (glory, splendor) and the power (might and dominion) forever and ever (through the eternities of the eternities)!”
Seems plain enough. John falls over himself in his efforts to make the scope of this joyful praise universal. Hard to know what more he could have said to make it clearer.
Given this, questions concerning the Book of Life are quite irrelevant. (btw. Christ himself, God’s Word, is the Book of Life. All that is found in him will be saved. ie. the entire cosmos.)
, the place of departed spirits] and on the sea and all that is in it, crying out together, To Him Who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be ascribed the blessing and the honor and the majesty (glory, splendor) and the power (might and dominion) forever and ever (through the eternities of the eternities)!"
Seems plain enough. John falls over himself in his efforts to make the scope of this joyful praise universal. Hard to know what more he could have said to make it clearer.
Given this, questions concerning the Book of Life are quite irrelevant. (btw. Christ himself, God’s Word, is the Book of Life. All that is found in him will be saved. ie. the entire cosmos.)
win.
, the place of departed spirits] and on the sea and all that is in it, crying out together, To Him Who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be ascribed the blessing and the honor and the majesty (glory, splendor) and the power (might and dominion) forever and ever (through the eternities of the eternities)!"
Seems plain enough. John falls over himself in his efforts to make the scope of this joyful praise universal. Hard to know what more he could have said to make it clearer.
Given this, questions concerning the Book of Life are quite irrelevant. (btw. Christ himself, God’s Word, is the Book of Life. All that is found in him will be saved. ie. the entire cosmos.)
Can you follow the OP, please. As far as Rev 5:13 I have not meditated on it enough to understand its meaning and will not force what I think it means. But I dont think it supports UR since the whole chapter is not about the UR of every human being. Being found written in the book of life is the only way to enter the New Jerusalem. If not found written in the book of life you are thrown into the lake of fire. Very relevant. Show evidence of people exiting the penalty of being thrown into the lake of fire and being recorded in the book of life after the final judgment. That is where the rubber hits the road, Allan. Seems plain enough. God bless.
That is why I asked respectfully for Sonia to remove the post. For instance, I know longer believe names are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. The whole first link is about me believing that. It should not be there to begin with to avoid confusion. But somehow I think confusion coupled with trying to discredit me is the goal here. God bless.
Are you saying that there are other positions you defended in the past here that you now no longer agree with (other than the example you give of names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world)?
Are any of these abandoned positions ones that you previously felt the Holy Spirit had led you to believe?
If not then why did you hold them at the time and expound them as the truth?
If yes then how can a third party know that positions you hold now and which you ascribe to the Holy Spirit in you will not be abandoned in the future?
Would you also be open to the possibility that, regarding those who argued against those positions that you have now abandoned, they might themselves have been inspired to those positions by the Holy Spirit - despite them also holding to UR (which they may also have been led to by the Holy Spirit)?
Jeff, that is all I’m going to say about it. Sonia has made her decision and it is what it is. I’m over it. BTW, if you allow the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit to operate in your life He can clean you up from any false doctrine or false interpretation of scripture you once held. After all, If the Holy Spirit is doing the teaching, he gives the same doctrine to every church. Why do you think there are 30,000 denominations and numerous flavors of UR? Let that sink in. God bless.
I’m not saying that “Revelation is too hard for the Holy Spirit to teach us to understand”. What I’m saying is that the reason Revelation is so challenging to interpret is because of the type of literature it is. Many people attempt to interpret Revelation literally and systematically when its style of literature lends itself to being interpreted metaphorically and artistically, like one would interpret movie clips from Tolkien’s “Lord of the Rings” or Lewis’ “Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe”.
As to why there are many denominations, there are many reasons, many having to do with God building His kingdom. God inspires people to worship him differently, with different gifts and different callings. Some are more expressive, others more contemplative, some inspired to organize in smaller groups, others in larger groups, some inspired to organize under one primary leader, others under a team of leaders, etc. etc. etc. Even during the time of Christ the disciples asked about a man not part of their group who was ministering in the name of Jesus, asked if they should oppose him and shut him down. Jesus replied in essence, no and leave him alone. In like manner we need to stop judging others and expecting others to be like us and instead focus on what God has called us to do.
Concerning differences of doctrine, the primary reason is because not one of us have it all right. We’re trying to understand things that are way beyond our scope of experience and ability to understand. We’re often like the proverbial men arguing over the elephant in front of us, all of us only feeling a part of it. And sometimes we’re like blind men arguing over shades of green. I think it’s forest green, you think it’s lime green.
We need to walk in more humility, yes have our opinions, beliefs, differences in doctrine but should hold to them lightly while holding on to God and one another tightly! Blessed are the poor in spirit, not those who think they are rich. Blessed are the hungry, not those who are full of themselves.
So yes Revelation is an inspired book, and yes we trust in the Holy Spirit to teach us and help us understand it, and one of the avenues of helping us understand it is to understand the type of literature it is and what it was meant to do and what it was not meant to do.
I think the Holy Spirit would be more interested in humility, and showing the fruits of the Spirit in our lives, than He is teaching us what obscure apocalyptic symbolism might mean. Just my opinion, not prophecy!
Also Revival, something I didn’t mention in my first reply is that Systematic theologies do not rest upon One scripture or even One book of the Bible, but are systems of values and beliefs that are based upon the whole of scripture, tradition, reason, and current expressions of the church. All systematic theologies recognize that there are “problematic” passages, even “problimatic” books of the Bible. And what I mean by “problematic” is passages that at face-value seem to contradict that system of beliefs. Shoot, Luther even appealed for James and Revelation to be removed from the cannon of scripture.
For me, it was studying what scripture affirms concerning judgment and the punishment of sin that freed me to have faith that Jesus really is the savior of all humanity, especially, not only, we who believe. I found that most passages that speak of the punishment of sin speak of it in terms of death, destruction, the wages of sin that come in this life, increasing bondage to evil from within and without, whole communities suffering under the judgment of God. But threaded throughout these passages are messages of hope, redemption, reconciliation. Even Sodom and Gomorrah are to be reclaimed by God. Even Hinnom Valley (gehenna) is to be reclaimed by God. What is evil is turned to good.
But I get off topic, my point is that UR does not depend on understanding the lake of fire in a specific way any more than ECT depends upon understanding the lake of fire in a certain way. And this doesn’t even take into consideration that the whole of Revelation can be interpreted from a Preterist or Spiritualist perspective, much less individual elements in any one of the given visions. How does one interpret Picasso’s Guernica? What does the bull stand for in that painting? Of course I’m not saying the Guernica is inspired, but it is artistic similar to the visions John shared in Revelation.
I agree. This verse refers to the redemption of “every created being”, not just humans.
The New Jerusalem symbolises perfect peace with God. We begin with Eden. We end with the New Jerusalem. God makes his dwelling with man etc. How is this achieved?
“For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”
Just as all God’s fulness dwelt in Christ, all things have been reconciled to God through him. Presenting this truth has become Paul’s reason for living: “We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.” Who does Paul present as perfect “in Christ”? Everyone.
Paul is writing to people whose names are in “the Book of Life”. They are reconciled to God, dead to sin, raised with Christ and perfect in Christ, yet he commands them to “Put to death whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed.” Why? “Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.” We do not escape the wrath of God by “becoming a Christian” but by being Christ-like, by taking up our cross, by putting to death the sin we find in our own lives. If we refuse to kill these evils, God himself will kill them. He will burn us clean. It will be like taking a quick dip in a lake of fire. This is the second death because it will “put to death whatever belongs to our earthly nature.” The sooner we begin to die to sin, the easier it will be to live to God. As Jesus said, make your peace with the judge on the way to court. But whether we die this second death now or later, God (in perfect justice and unfailing mercy) will have us clean.
I respect that, Sherman. All the scripture you use to support UR must lead to the temporary punishment you say happens in the lake of fire. All I want you ( and every UR) is to show me this evidence to be true. Show me evidence of anyone exiting the lake of fire after Rev 20:11-15.
All the scripture you use to support UR must lead to the temporary punishment you say happens in the lake of fire. All I want you ( and every UR) is to show me this evidence to be true.** Show me evidence of anyone exiting the lake of fire after Rev 20:11-15.**
