Hi Dave, you quoted:
I’m not quite sure who said this. Was it Jim West? In any case, is it some kind of joke?
Every dictionary I consulted indicates that a teetotaler is a person who totally abstains from alcoholic beverages.
Just wondering why abstainers are not called a drinktotaler? Or maybe a Beveragetotaler?
Remember in the Walton’s it was the sisters that called their moonshine ‘The Recipe’ and they were fine with it.
Crazy stuff 
Winebibbers 
Paidion is right. Here is a good article to study:
What is the Origin of the Word Teetotaler? Why are People Who Never Drink Called This?
Now for a tea song (excuse me, while I have tea, with the Video’s Zombies): 
As I wrote, that was from a blurb written about the book. So I’m quoting the blurber and yes, I think it was meant as a joke.
Another year has rolled by since I wrote this essay. Today, I would like to reiterate that there is good evidence there were two kinds of wine in the Bible: alcoholic and nonalcoholic. Here is an excellent pdf booklet full of evidence on the subject: Bible Wines, by Dr. William Patton.
But for the unconvinced, there is no condemnation in Christ, and as they say, “if you can’t be good, be careful.”
Reminders about drinking and driving (brought to you by State Farm Insurance)
*** Choose a designated driver**. Decide who’s going to be doing the driving before you go out, and make sure that person doesn’t drink any alcoholic beverages.
*** Call a taxi.** Sometimes even the designated driver slips. If nobody in your group is sober, take alternate transportation. Cab, train, bus, horse and buggy – anything’s better than getting in the car with a drunk driver.
*** Hide keys.** Don’t be afraid to take someone’s car keys. If the person gets angry, it’s probably proof you’re doing the right thing.
- If you spot an impaired driver, keep a safe distance and call 9-1-1. Do not attempt to stop the vehicle yourself.
And when throwing a party
*** Offer non-alcoholic beverages.** Water, juice, soda pop – give your guests plenty of alternatives. And never pressure guests to drink alcohol.
*** Serve plenty of food.** A full stomach can slow the rate of alcohol absorption. Serve a great meal or have plenty of appetizers on hand.
*** Stop serving alcohol well before the party ends. Give your guests an extra hour or two without alcohol before they head out the door.
*** Arrange alternate transportation. Pay attention to your guests’ alcohol intake and behavior. If someone has had a lot to drink or seems even the slightest bit tipsy, call a cab or set up a ride with a sober driver.
*** Never serve minors.**
Happy 2017! May the Lord “bless you real good” this year.
There is no scriptural evidence at all that any non-alcoholic beverage was called “wine.”
All good practices tho Hermano. I think wine is fine but I agree with your posted policies 
I agree with, Paidion. For the most part, all the “Biblical experts” Hermano produced here, were really Seven Day Adventist. Although he did produce one “Islamic expert” on the Bible. All others, from the Calvinists and other Christian branches presented - in this thread - agree with Paidion.
Having said that, I don’t fault any Christian (or non-Christian), from abstaining from alcohol. Just as I don’t fault folks from Peace churches, like the Quakers - taking a stance against war.
I should dedicate a song to that.
And no, Hermano. I do not endorse any simulated drunkenness, this video might suggest. But I do endorse good red wine and reggae music (like this song uses).
As I have argued in my essay, above, the Bible seems to contradict itself regarding “wine,” both praising it, and condemning it (Wine is a mocker; Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles [effervesces?] in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper.)
I argue that this is so because in the Scriptures, “wine” is a generic term, including both alcoholic, and non-alcoholic varieties.
Tirosh [tiyrowsh] H3423 in the sense of expulsion; must or [size=120]fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out[/size]); by implication (rarely) fermented wine:—(new, sweet) wine.
Yet tirosh is always translated as “wine”:
Gen 27:28, 27:37
Num 18:12
Deu 7:13, 11:14, 12:17, 14:23, 18:4, 28:51, 33:28,
Jdg 9:13
2Ki 18:32
2Ch 31:5, 32:28
Neh 5:11, 10:37, 10:39, 13:5, 13:12
Psa 4:7
Pro 3:10
Isa 24:7, 36:17, 62:8, 65:8,
Jer 31:12
Hos 2:8, 9 2:22, 4:11, 7:14, 9:2,
Joe 1:10, 2:19, 2:24, Mic 6:15, Hag 1:11,
Zec 9:17
Chemer H2560; wine (as fermenting):—pure, red wine.
Examples of chemer (usually) translated as “wine,” where the context indicates nonalcoholic:
-Deu 32:14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
-Isa 27:2-3 In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine. I the LORD do keep it; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day.
Yayin H3196 from an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication, intoxication:—banqueting
Examples of yayin translated as “wine,” where the context indicates nonalcoholic:
-Isa 16:10 And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses.
-Jer 40:12 Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much.
-Jer 48:33 And joy and gladness is taken from the plentiful field, and from the land of Moab; and I have caused wine to fail from the winepresses: none shall tread with shouting; their shouting shall be no shouting.
In the New Testament:
Oinos—The Septuagint or Greek translation of the Old Testament and in the New Testament, the word* oinos* corresponds to the Hebrew word yayin. Both yayin and oinos are generic words, they designate the juice of the grape in all its stages. (See Patton’s Bible Wines.)
From The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary:
“It is important to note that the Hebrew word tirosh, “grape juice, unfermented wine,” appearing 38 times in the Old Testament (Harris, “tirosh,” Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 2:969), is almost exclusively translated by oinos (36 times). In other words, oinos can and does refer to either unfermented or fermented wine in the Septuagint.”
Question: Was Jesus referring to alcoholic or nonalcoholic wine in this Passover cup?
Again, Hermano. How do you respond to these articles?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible
gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine.html
gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-drink-wine.html
Note: What’s interesting also, is the Greek and Hebrew Lexigraphy, in the Wiki article 
Let’s go back to these articles. And look at something, from the Wiki one:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible
gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine.html
gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-drink-wine.html
You know what? I wish these thread starters, would just say they are following an established position. Like one that dragged on and on, before I discovered that they were just following the position, of Bible translator and theologian A.E. Knoch.
So Hermano. Are you really just presenting the “two-wine” position?
It doesn’t, qaz. Unless one of those two “two-wine” position “experts”, specially addresses it. I guess I should have not quoted you and made it just a separate post.
Hermano has two things to do.
Refute your quoted scripture
Confirm whether is is advocating the “two-wine” position. And if not, what** established ** position (if any), is he advocating?
Randy, as I see it, It is a matter of brainwashing, usually by the Baptist types as in the above article. Here in the mid south of the good old U.S. of A, many of the liquor stores have drive thru’s. Many will try to argue that it is for convenience but the owners will tell you that a large portion of Baptists will not be seen walking thru a liquor store door but will go thru the drive thru. (guess they think no one will recognize their cars)
Here is the covenant for the national Free Will Baptist association.
CHURCH COVENANT
Having given ourselves to God, by faith in Christ,
and adopted the Word of God as our rule of faith and
practice, we now give ourselves to one another by the
will of God in this solemn covenant.
We promise, by His grace, to love and obey Him
in all things, to avoid all appearance of evil, to abstain
from all sinful amusements and unholy conformity to
the world,** from all sanction of the use and sale of
intoxicating beverages,** and to “provide things honest
in the sight of all men.”
We agree faithfully to discharge our obligations in
reference to the study of the Scriptures, secret prayer,
family devotions, and social worship; and by self denial,
faith, and good works endeavor to “grow in
grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour
Jesus Christ.”
We will not forsake the assembling of ourselves
together for church conferences, public worship, and
the observance of the ordinances of the Gospel; nor
fail to pay according to our ability for the support of
the church, of its poor, and all its benevolent work.
We agree to accept Christian admonition and
reproof with meekness, and to watch over one another
in love, endeavoring to “keep the unity of the
Spirit” in the bonds of peace, to be careful of one
another’s happiness and reputation, and seek to
strengthen the weak, encourage the afflicted, admonish
the erring, and as far as we are able, promote the
success of the church and of the Gospel.
We will everywhere hold Christian principle
sacred and Christian obligations and enterprises
supreme; counting it our chief business in life to
extend the influence of Christ in society, constantly
praying and toiling that the kingdom of God may
come, and His will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
To this end we agree to labor for the promotion of
educational and denominational enterprises, the support
of missions, the success of Sunday schools, and
evangelistic efforts for the salvation of the world. And
may the God of peace sanctify us wholly, and preserve
us blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now most Free Will Baptist churches either have this or an abbreviated version of it posted somewhere in the church. None of the abbreviated versions have ever left the alcohol part out that I have ever seen. And notice how far up in the covenant this subject is! I think it is in many a Baptist DNA to consider drinking alcohol a sin. And to shame anyone who would think otherwise. 
A valid question of ethics could be asked about these *alcohol is sin *types who will go and buy gas and groceries at stores who sell alcoholic beverages.
Well, Chad. Just don’t go white water rafting, without a Baptist in the boat. And yes, it does have a reference to alcohol. 
“What happens on the river, stays on the river”
I stopped drinking alcohol because I became convinced that the word “wine” in the Bible is generic, and does not exclusively indicate fermented wine. I was set free by considering the truth of a “two wine” position. (I certainly don’t condemn people who drink, but I must disagree with those who use the Bible to promote it. I perceive alcohol to be harmful and seductive. Hence, I don’t think it’s God’s desire for anyone to partake.)
I am not a language scholar, nor an ancient history scholar. But don’t all of us constantly sift through and weigh evidence, and come to our own conclusions? (Although, depending on our personal interest in a particular question, we may sometimes neglect the sifting part.) We each favor our own “experts” --their interpretations and their translations. But when they disagree, they cannot all be right. Similarly, when we disagree, we cannot all be right.
Take baptism. G907 - baptizō: “to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk).” Should a person be obligated to fast and take a class before being baptized? Should it be performed by complete immersion, partial immersion, or sprinkling? Is it necessary for salvation?
From Wikipedia: “New Testament scholars generally agree that the early church baptized by immersion.” (‘Wiersbe’s expository outlines on the New Testament’, pp. 466–467, 1997). Who says so? “Wiersbe.” Who’s Wiersbe? I don’t know, but I agree with him. I think a believer should be baptized, by immersion, but that water baptism is NOT necessary for salvation, and that this question is not a point to break fellowship over. Shouldn’t I track down and go through all Wiersbe’s sources, as well as other historical, archeological, and linguistic evidence?
Or what about G166 - aionios? Does it mean “eternal”? Or does it mean “age-during”? Is Strong’s correct, or is Young’s?
Is sufficient evidence available on these questions to reach definitive conclusions? Am I personally qualified to weigh all the evidence properly? What presuppositions and prejudices do I bring to my analysis? Have I actually even bothered to pray about it? And what about the role of the inner witness of the Holy Spirit in my judgment? (Romans 8:16)
Regarding context, I don’t see the point of your quoted verses on “wine,” qaz. I would never interpret “wine” as “grape juice” in those examples. But I am saying there is good evidence (referenced in my original essay) to show that “wine” is a generic term which occasionally refers to unfermented wine.
Speaking of context, is fermented wine “treaded out in the winepresses”? Do we “water a vineyard of [fermented] wine”? Is fermented wine “found in the cluster”? No, that would be the unfermented, unadulterated blood of the grape. Only that “wine” is a fitting symbol for Christ’s blood, because fermentation is a process of decay, and alcohol is a toxic waste produced during that process.
Please consider, Bible Wines: Laws of Fermentation. Rev. William Patton, D.D. As PDF at icotb.org/resources/Patton,William-BibleWines.pdf , or here, pmiministries.com/Books/Bible_Wines_William_Patton.pdf , or here, with several format options (EPUB, Kindle, PDF, et al): archive.org/details/biblewinesorlaw00pattgoog
Blessings.
PS I am not promoting Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Muslims, et al. 
I am non-denominational, evangelical. Also, I generally reject making covenants or oaths, since Jesus said, “Do not swear an oath at all.”
The book 'Drinking with Calvin and Luther" is available - a short book by Jim West that is very enlightening.
From a review of the book:
"One area that has me thinking is simply the reason why we drink. I’ve often looked at the case for alcohol being such a staple in church history more on the level of necessity. With the poor water quality, drinking alcoholic beverages was a matter of health. And, yes, I’ve always looked at it as a gift from God’s creation that should be enjoyed. But it seems like our evangelical culture would have those who would insist on enjoying their Christian liberties do it in a clandestine fashion. I partake because I appreciate a good drink and I know that a glass will help untie all the knots in my brain at night, but also because it makes me merry. And West wants to emphasize this aspect of the gift from God’s creation.
He quotes the venerable John Calvin, “It is permissible to use wine not only for necessity, but to make us merry” (53). In his commentary on Ps. 104:15, Calvin emphasizes that drinking must be moderate. But “his second consideration may surprise the ignorant, and even shock the pietist; he argued that ‘in making merry,’ those who enjoy wine** ‘feel a livelier gratitude to God**’” (53).
Of course, Martin Luther was a beer man. His wife, Katherine, was a skilled brewstress (which was a common vocation for a housewife). Luther is known for saying that he “drank freely ‘to spite the devil’” (33). Alcohol was part of everyday life. These days, we may question whether someone who drank everyday was an alcoholic. But Luther also offers a witty definition to help us distinguish a drunk: “Drunkenness: when the tongue walks on stilts and reason goes forward under a half sail” (30).
This book is important to both to libertine and the legalist because, as R.C. Sproul Jr. says in the Forward, “it’s not enough that we should drink, but that we ought to drink well”
Hermano said
Hermano, I have never in my life heard of any one ‘promoting drinking’ from a biblical context. Every biblical context I have ever heard that took a pro/affirmative drinking stance was from a position of challenge from someone like you, who brought it up and stirred the pot. 
You started this thing here: [Christians And Alcohol)
I appreciate your views, but don’t bring it up, then pose a bunch of what you call biblical evidence against anyone who sees it different than your original view and then go on to say you have nothing against it. (see above) 
I have always been baffled by this debate.
Well, maybe I am wrong about someone promoting the ingestion of alcoholic beverages from a biblical standpoint.
But I can tell you what book I’m am on the hunt for!
Dave you said
I concur
Thanks DaveB.
I was only quoting the book review - but I agree with it overall. The book is entertaining and does make some very good points.
The ‘merry-making’ use of wine and other alcohol is, within its reasonable boundaries, a good thing IMO. I refer you, ladies and gentleman, to indisputable truth: Hobbits love to drink. Case closed.
Life is hard, something that can ease it a bit, refresh and make merry, has to be a gift.