This section will include verses between the old and new testaments that plainly contradict each other. Please add any that you have seen.
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This is not a contradiction, the former is from The Law of Moses & the latter is from Jesus who is establishing Christian principals sometimes known as âThe Law of Christâ as well as 6 other descriptions.
The Law of Moses is part of Judaism , & while many moral laws were incorporated into Christianity , Jesus had the authority to change law which he did here.
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What is the purpose of this thread?
What is the point of the thread? Iâm not against it, I would like to know the purpose behind it though.
@DaveB2.0 Just to see what contradictions there are between the old v new. Also, if they are actual contradictions or just in need of more understanding. Too add, also to find Truth in biblical matters. Does that answer your question?
As an example:
Arpachshadâs son was Shelah - Gen 11:12
Arpachshadâs grandson was Shelah - Luke 3:35-36
Seems to be a contradiction. Which one is correct?
Stupid.
MLK - I know what contradictions are, and that there are some; I guess what makes me a nervous Nellie is that some people go from a few unimportant contradictions to a full-blown theory of âOh we canât trust God or the Bibleâ and a lot of hand-wringing. Not saying thatâs what you are doing at all - thatâs why I asked, though I was already pretty sure of what you meant. Cool beans.
@DaveB2.0 No worries there Dave, I totally get your point on that. It is quite unfortunate when it happens - yet for me personally I will always trust Gods words and look for more understanding.
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Donât know. Donât really care. Maybe Luke was using a different, maybe more up to date, genealogy than Moses (or whoever) was using. There are so many âbegatsâ listed that any poor scribe could hardly be faulted for mixing up one or two of the family trees. My own family tree contains so many Norms, Rodericks, James, Hamishes, Margarets, Catherines, and many other names to confuse anybody trying to figure out who I was begotten of going back six generations and who has been begotten of me going forward four generations.
It would be incredible if there were no apparent contradictions. The fact that there are so few, if any, is an amazing testimony to divine guidance in the compilations of the scriptures we have.
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M - it sounds like you just want to back them into the corner. Is it that important to you??
People who want to find supposed contradictions usually will⌠but there is inevitably some rational explanation to be found somewhere. But why limit this to OT vs NT⌠just go to NT vs NT or in particular Jn vs Jn, for exampleâŚ
Jn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Jn 14:9 Jesus said to him, âHave I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, âShow us the Fatherâ?
Bet that puts a hole in someoneâs divinity argument.
Personally, I donât think that the NT can be considered as undeniable scripture. I think that people should care if there are contradictions between the two, or within each other. If there is even just one contradiction, you have to examine the reasoning as to why this is so and not just accept it. I donât believe in blind faith, but tested and reliable faith.
As a side note, genealogies were extremely important in differentiating if the Messiah was actually the Messiah. Obviously we donât get that from a hellenistic point of view, but that doesnât mean it isnât important and there isnât any purpose to it.
Iâm inclined to agree, but Iâm not convinced discrepancies thereby automatically equals contradictions per sĂŠ.
With all due respect, Mik, that is bunkum (pretentious nonsense). Presuming that you drive a car and donât just lie in bed all day believing (hoping?) that your ceiling wonât collapse, you exercise a great deal of blind faith a) in your vehicle and, more so, b) in the competence of all the other drivers. No, your faith is very touching, Mik, but it is blind.
On the other hand, the faith exercised by the believer in Christ is not blind. Initially, it is like the faith a small child places in a father who tosses him gently in the air then catches him before he falls - a very simple faith, proved true because the father never drops him.
Hebrews 11:6 (TLB) You can never please God without faith, without depending on him. Anyone who wants to come to God must believe that there is a God and that he rewards those who sincerely look for him.
True faith may start off as innocent as that small childâs, but it grows and grows as believers experience its impact more and more in their lives. God the Father becomes real, not just an abstract thought. Jesus the Son becomes increasingly precious as we experience Him in our lives. In short, true faith is an experiential faith.
Think of Paul and Silas sitting on the filthy floor of their cell in a Philippian jailhouse. Were they discussing, maybe arguing over, the apparent contradictions in the OT genealogies? Were they debating over how the Lordâs teachings to His disciples seemed to be at odds with some of the OT scriptures? I kinda doubt it, but it is possible, I suppose. Or maybe they were just pondering over the eternal question about how many angels can actually dance on the head, not the pointy part, of a pin. None of the above - you know what they were doing.
Well, there are Calvinist, Baptist, Roman Catholic, etc. - scholars and theologians - that can reconcile every âapparentâ contradiction, in any Bible. And if you key into Google âcontradictions in the bible QuoraââŚwhere Quora is a very popular, question discussion siteâŚyou find many amateur and professional âexpertsâ, talking about this very topicâŚand they have many different discussions, on page 1 of Google. In other words, different variations of the same topic.
Itâs kind of like me, providing examples of folksâŚwith the âallegedâ gift of prophecy and seeing visions from God. And they describe seeing zombies from Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). Well, the zombies they see - might be slightly different. But overall, they see zombies - nonetheless.
Much boils down to context. For example., I might highly recommend the benefits of Zen (1, 2), for the Christian. But they can give the same benefits from Buddhist Mindfulness, under the umbrella of psychology. Which stripped it of its Buddhist philosophical and theological roots. Or I can say that Zen (1, 2) and Mindfulness, are contained in the Dzogchen tradition. Where the Rainbow Body , is a byproduct - of the state of realization.
And, least we forget. Since I brought up the topic!
Ah my first real debate on this forum.
Thank you very much @Invernessian, itâs much appreciated.
First off, we are talking about faith in relation to that of a relationship with God and what he wants. Within the CONTEXT of what I had said, while examining the bible we need to exercise tested and reliable faith, not of that which is blind. Obviously, everyone is involved in blind faith through everyday activities such as the ones youâve stated. That doesnât mean we stop studying the bible and take it at face value. Please indicate what are we to do with the roughly 33,000 various denominations of Christianity, of which contain numerous (around 95ish) versions of the bible (ie. ESV, ASV, KJV, CLV ect.), which translate to 683 languages, with contextual, linguistic, historical issues and any other amount of these combined. But hey, lets just believe and it will be okay.
Faith by biblical definition includes the Greek word 4102 pĂstis (from 3982 /peith Ă´ , " persuade , be persuaded") â properly, persuasion (be persuaded , come to trust); faith .
Faith (4102 /pistis ) is always a gift from God , and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102 /pistis (âfaithâ) for the believer is "Godâs divine persuasion " â and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
Faith involves the process of thinking. Thinking about an issue as to be persuaded by God to the correct conclusion.
I do agree with that.
Okay, I think that you should really read your bible sometime. Fun fact. The bible includes the OT not just the NT - give it a flip through. While youâre at it, read the NT as well.
Iâm pleased you are pleased, Mik. The only problem I have is that your reply seems to me more of a lecture than any serious debate. To be fair, maybe my post was also a lecture.
Ouch, that hurt, coming at me out of the blue like that. You are joking, right? No? - well let me gently advise you that by next week I will have once again finished reading the Bible from cover to cover, including every single âbegatâ and every âthou shaltâ.
Furthermore, by the age of four (4) I had memorized the first 15 verses of Johnâs gospel chapter 14. Why not âgive it a flip throughâ? That was 75 years ago and Iâve never forgotten them. Multiply that many times over and you might have some idea why your advice âwhile youâre at it, read the NT as wellâ literally caused me to burst out laughing.
As I read this thread and others, I am reminded that people on this forum just want to argue. Many of the responses here seem less than debate worthy and mostly emotionally knee-jerk reactions.
I typically like how composed Michael Rans is. He doesnât appear to be emotionally involved. That makes it far easier to discuss the merits of ideas. I donât say this because I agree with him. I think I disagree with him more than a lot of people here, but I like his calm demeanor. I think we should all step back and stop reacting to what people say. Who cares if someone thinks the OT and NT are full of contradictions? Is that something to get angry over? That is, another personâs opinion? Letâs get angry over worthy things. Like people starving, getting knifed or shot, not getting proper medical care⌠Letâs focus the anger towards the problem and not the people.
I also want to add, all of us here are on the same side. If I was starving and Dave knew I needed help, I believe Dave would help. Same with all here. That is what ultimately matters. If push comes to shove, we have each otherâs backs, which means we should really lighten up in our discussions.
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