If one is a bible believer it is normally a fact since Moses on his own couldn’t know what he wrote of. If one is not a bible believer then yes it is not a fact.
1 Like
How can you say ‘that is not a fact’? Do you have proof of that?
I happen to think that Moses was not given that revelation, that in fact it was a later condensation of truths learned by the Israelites, and formed into a concise, poetic, and ultimately truthful presentation; a thing of great and lasting beauty, and very close to what really happened.
But saying that Moses did NOT have that revealed to him is not something I think we can say.
Of course Gabe has no proof - I am sure he would agree with that statement. So, why do we believe what we believe? Because we believe the Scriptures are the Word of God, personified in the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor. 5:7 (TLB) “We know these things are true by believing, not by seeing.”
Plus, Christians are led into truth by the Holy Spirit. If that Biblical statement is not true then, as Scripture states (in a different context) “we are of all men most miserable”.
But, Rom. 8:16 (NKJV) assures us: “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God”. Believers experience that and it is the reason why we believe.
Furthermore, John 16:13-15 (MSG) assures us, in the words of Jesus: “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t handle them now. But when the Friend comes, the Spirit of the Truth, he will take you by the hand and guide you into all the truth there is."
- Receive it, believe it!
I realize I am beginning to sound like the old-fashioned believer I used to be sixty years ago! I’m even surprised I didn’t close the sermon with a warning. “If you don’t believe this you have no hope and will end up in HELL!”.
You have just put many evangelicals into a dive spin…
1 Like
I totally believe that you believe that. But I question if the book of Romans is talking to us Norm, not to say we can’t glean a few ideas, but it was written to 'ROMANS"
1 Like
There is always the chance, dear Chad, that Romans is inspired by God, for the building up of the body of Christ.
At least the chance, eh?
1 Like
So what does the book of Romans tell us about today? I’m not being sarcastic but there are so many ideas about the idea of what the book of ‘Romans’ means to modern Christians that it is a crazy cornucopia of beliefs…
If you want to weigh in on your take, I would appreciate it.
Yes, Chad, it was written to the church in Rome, just as the letter to the Galatians was written to the church in Galatia, etc. etc. I presume you are arguing that the gospel teachings in any and all of Paul’s letters are not by necessity applicable to anyone to whom the letter is not specifically addressed. With all due respect, that’s a bunch of tommyrot. In the closing verses of the book, Paul clarifies that his teachings are applicable to all believers in his day, not just for Romans.
Romans 16: 25-27: "I commit you to God, who is able to make you strong and steady in the Lord, just as the Gospel says, and just as I have told you. This is God’s plan of salvation for you Gentiles, kept secret from the beginning of time. But now as the prophets foretold and as God commands, this message is being preached everywhere, so that people all around the world will have faith in Christ and obey him.
In other words, Paul is saying that his message is for all believers and that is proved by the fact that he writes the same message in all his letters to the NT churches, and, by extension to you and me. Sure, his letters contain greetings to particular friends and colleagues and these are useful to us only as interesting personal touches from a man who wrote many of his letters in a stinking jail cell.
If you do not believe the letters apply to you or me, Chad, for the love of Mike from where do you imagine we get any spiritual wisdom and knowledge?
1 Like
Just like everybody else, you make it up as you go but claim the Holy Spirit told you… and just lucky according to Revelation (if you can believe it) there are seven Spirits to share the load around 
I’m olny messin’ with ya Norm as I got a real chuckle out of your line above, even though I suspect you may have been a tad more serious.
Should we ditch the OT because it was written to Jews? Obviously everything in the bible was written to somebody or some group including the gospels too but that doesn’t mean the information is only applicable to whom the letter was directed. This is not a newsflash that bible books are written to various readers, but if there are things about God or Jesus or Christians or related topics then it’s applicable to anyone.
1 Like
That is the question of the ages. The structure of Christian belief, is predicated on the learning that happens when a person listens to a Christian leader or pastor or reads the bible or whatever… If you have been told that ‘Romans’ applies to you than for goodness, have at it. I believe it was written to a select group of people at a select time, totally in GODS timing and understanding.
Spiritual wisdom and knowledge comes from GOD, and I’m not sure how we figure that all out, but to say" If you do not believe the letters apply to you or me, Chad, for the love of Mike from where do you imagine we get any spiritual wisdom and knowledge?" is kind of off the wall. Spiritual knowledge comes from being what God wants us to be… He gives us the tools to live in life. To read the scriptures and think that they are the all inclusive answer to life’s modern questions is to be honest a bit comical. No offense intended.
Why would it be necessary to preserve on the ark animals of every species, if it were merely a regional flood?
Also in some contexts, the Greek word “γη” (gā), also must mean “earth” and not merely “land.” For example Matthew 18:18 where Jesus said:
Truly, I tell you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Or do you think it could just as well be translated, “whatever you bind on the land shall be bound in heaven.”
1 Like
Steve… there are a handful of posters right here who ditch plenty of the OT, regardless of who it was written to — what’s the difference?
Maybe it was the species of that particular region. ?? 
Because Jesus referred to it maybe hundreds of times if you count Revelation & it escapes me how you can believe Jesus, except what he says about the OT by referencing it so many times?
Why not just move them instead of all this ark business?
That may be true, but the information as it is assimilated to Christian believers in their time was absolutely dealing with them. The letters where written to specific folks and you can realize said idea or not…
Steve, I actually do agree 
but I think you missed my broader point made.
Here’s the thing. I think it’s a moot point…about whether we had a global or regional. flood. From the myths and legends of world cultures - including Native Americans - we could have had several “regional” floods, around the world. And collectively, they made-up a global flood.
Why was there a flood? Because mankind was “bad to the bone”. Perhaps folks believed they were the “baddest of the bad” - in one area or region. Like different 1%, bike clubs do today. Like we see played out, in the FX series The Myans.
I for one, believe in a global flood. If mankind was “bad to the bone” in one region, it’s probably true for all regions.
But it’s a moot point, IMHO.
True. There is a tradition of lighting candles - in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions - in front of Christ, Mary and the saints. I think the Protestants should do this - and burn some incense - in front of the Bible, before giving a sermon! 
But the Quakers were guided, even before they read a Bible. That’s what George Fox’s, mystical experience was about.
Or like the creator, spoke to the Native Americans - with their healing traditions!