The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Dating outside the faith

Practices Christian Living
#1

I’m genuinely after opinions now.

I’ve never dated outside of Christian men before. Some well meaning friends set me up on a surprise date with a non Christian man. Not wanting to be hurtful or rude, my plan during this was to have a pleasant date and then just let it drift, so to speak. You know, just let it naturally be one of those things that never comes to anything.

Only problem was, it was a great date. Better than with any Christian I’ve ever been out with. We seem very compatible. I’ve seen him a couple of times since in social settings and he is honestly behaving besotted with me. He wants to see me again. This is so typical of me! All the Christian guys around me; we seem to have zero chemistry or compatibility. This guy? We seem to have bucket loads.

So, is it wrong to date an unbeliever? Is it not wrong per se, but just a bad idea? Or is it no big deal? I’ve no idea right now if I’d be wrong to accept this lovely man’s offer to go out again or not. Feel free to wade in with opinions. You won’t offend me!

#2

Maybe Catherine here on the forum might be able to give you some good input, as I think her husband is an atheist, and they seem to get along just fine, and appear to have a positive relationship. :slight_smile:

As far as my opinion, I would say get to know him a bit more first, and then when there’s a good window for it, talk openly with him about your beliefs and convictions, and about his as well, and if he’s cool with where you’re at and if you’re cool with where he’s at, then I think you can go from there. :slight_smile:

Personally, I think the whole unequally yoked thing has more to do with our level of character and maturity then it has to do with personal beliefs and convictions, but then that’s just me…

I think being with someone who has a totally different worldview would certainly be very challenging at times, but if they are around the same spot as you as far as character and maturity goes, and if you have mutual respect and love for one another, and even when you disagree, I think it’s possible to have a good and meaningful relationship.

And obviously it’s something to think and pray a lot about before making a decision either way. :slight_smile:

And to add, you strike me as a wonderful lady with a beautiful heart, Jael, and I’m thinking any guy would be lucky to have you as a mate. :slight_smile: And here’s hoping you find a good guy who is worthy of your company. :slight_smile:

Blessings to you and hope all goes well :slight_smile:

#3

^^^ That.

I’ve heard a lot of people of a more fundamentalist bent talk about unequal yoking being just about believer/unbeliever, and while I think that* can* be a part of it(depending on the acceptance and compromise abilities of the two), it’s really a** lot** bigger than that.

#4

This came up in my Bible study last week. For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts (disclaimer this can be a sensitive subject, so I apologize in advance for any offense caused!):

  1. I don’t think it’s a sin to date or marry a non-Christian.

  2. Whilst not a sin, given how central/influential Christianity is/should-be on your life & decisions, marrying a non-Christian could cause many additional conflicts in a marriage (although it doesn’t always), especially if the non-Christian has strong believes. e.g. if you married a fundamentalist Muslim there could be certain expectations in regards who works & how much, the number of children you had to have, where you send them to school, what you eat, what charities you support, freedom to practice your faith, etc. (I’m not having a go a Muslims here - if a female Muslim married a fundamentalist Christian, they probably would face similar issues. I’m not even having a go at fundamentalism, my point is that large differences in worldview can cause unforeseen issues a few years down the track - particularly in difficult times when people tend to revert to their childhood faith/culture, which you might not know about after even years of knowing someone).

  3. I’m married but if I wasn’t, I personally wouldn’t marry a non-Christian, or even a Christian with fairly different theology, not that I have anything against either, it’s just I know how hard marriage can be, even between two likeminded Christians.

  4. At the very least, I’d say it’s essential to take your time (even more so than with a Christian) & avoid getting physically intimate (if he’s worth marrying, he should respect that.

(Hope I’m not being too full-on :blush: I wouldn’t have commented on this thread if you hadn’t explicitly asked).

#5

Alex, I can only speak for myself, but I don’t think you were being too full-on. I think you provided sound Christian advice. I concur with you completely :slight_smile:

Jael, it’s a decision that everyone has to make, but a completely different worldview will bring some conflict I think, and at the very least, you will not be able to share in the beautiful love and communion of God with your partner. You might be willing and able to bear that yoke, but I think it should be weighed up. In the words of my sister, who is dating an agnostic (which is a scandal in my old fundamentalist church), “he will never truly understand or share [my joy in Christ]”. For her, that’s a deeply troubling thing to bear. She has compromised on some things — both the good and bad (her theology is more reasonable and compassionate as a result). I hope you can make it work (if that’s what you decide to do) :slight_smile:

I’m not sure whether it’s relevant, but everyone has to determine their own limits. I’ve long decided I’d date an agnostic or a hopeless liberal than date/liberate a Christian ideologue or fundamentalist. I don’t think I have the luxury of finding somebody with a similar theology. So what is important to me, and I think this is timeless advice for everyone (thanks to a dear friend): it’s not just what you believe; it’s how you believe it. The degree of importance on the just is what will differ for everyone. I hope you find yours.

#6

Jael, just a couple of personal experiences that may be helpful. Or not. :slight_smile:

My husband was a lapsed Catholic when I met him, and relatively skeptical about Christianity (not about God per se, more about the people within the Church). But you wouldn’t have known it at first glance, you would have assumed (and I did) that he was a complete atheist.
We became close friends, which included me talking about my beliefs to him - I couldn’t avoid it because I was heavily involved in the CU at university at the time and it occupied a lot of my thoughts - and it turned out there was a lot more going on under the surface than you would have thought at first glance. Within less than 6 months he became a Christian, without me being involved in it at all (other than indirectly I suppose). I don’t remember ever telling him he needed to convert even though of course I did think he and everyone else did; and it was never a question of him having to convert purely in order to date me - like I said, we were very close friends so we spent a lot of time on our own together already, which could be seen as non-physical dating. Although I’m sure he knew that I wouldn’t marry a non-believer, but how many men are thinking about marriage at age 19? (FWIW I still wouldn’t marry a non-believer even though, as Alex said, I don’t think it’s a sin.)

Anyway, none of that would have happened, I think, if we hadn’t been tremendously compatible in other ways - mentally and emotionally and in terms of interests and how much socialising we like to do and so on. And we have a very happy marriage - some ups and downs of course, but not nearly as many as other people in my family seem to have - which I attribute to us being very equally yoked in all areas other than Christianity (I’ve been a non-Catholic believer all my life), not that we’re any better than any of my sisters or brothers-in-law. So I do think that having things in common other than a belief system is very important.

Also perhaps I could tell you about my friend here whose partner is not a believer (she became one after they had been together for some years). He is incredibly supportive of her beliefs, even went to an Alpha course of his own volition just so he could understand what all this means to her, and although he has no intention of becoming a Christian himself he says he can see that it’s doing her good and that makes him happy. He also backs her up when her family try to have a go at her about it. But neither of them wants children, so that does make things a little easier.

All this to say that I agree with the others:

Personally I would go very slowly and be open about what you believe. I’ll pray for you for wisdom.

#7

my girlfriend of 2.5 years (where has the time gone!) is not a Christian. she frankly thinks it’s all rubbish. however, she grew up in a Catholic home, and then rebelled and became a punk…and even for a time a practicing Pagan of some description (haven’t gotten into that really, as she thinks that was rubbish too).
she seems to subscribe partially to the idea that our consciousness joins the universe, in a sort of Philip Pullman kind of way (His Dark Materials author), and that we fertilise the ground when we die.

that being said, she’s always been very supportive of my faith. she has even urged me to go to church. she’s open to discussions and things, and morally we’re pretty much in agreement on everything.

also she has been a blessing to me, a real God send (something i’ve told her). she’s a treasure, and the fact we don’t agree on theology at this point is not the biggest deal. if i’m right, we’ll end up together forever, and if she’s right it doesn’t matter. either way, we make it everything it can be in this present time!

i grew up with the idea that being “unequally yoked” was Christian/non-Christian relationships. i’ve since come to think that that is a narrow perception. also, to be culturally relevant, it appeared that if someone got saved, they often brought their household with them (you will be saved, you and your household, wherever that’s from)…so it seems a bit at odds with that that we’re suddenly being told to avoid non-Christians.

i appreciate that there can be difficulties and risks, but relationships ALWAYS have difficulties and risks. i’ve seen good and bad examples of all kinds of relationships, and the common denominators in the good ones seem to be maturity and acceptance and love, not necessarily theology.

#8

Right now, you’re just talking about a second date (and hopefully a third :wink: ). I wouldn’t worry about it right now; just enjoy life and enjoy his company. If things progress, you’ll know when it’s time to broach the subject of faith in a long-term relationship. Don’t just write it off because of the unequal yoking, you may be the one that can bring the Good News into his heart.

God can do magnificent and unimaginable things in and through people’s lives, so long as we don’t put Him (and ourselves) in a box.

Best wishes to you!

#9

Jael,

On top of all the other excellent advice (which I agree with), I’ll take the opportunity to remind as I usually do when this topic comes up: none of us would have any hope at all of being saved if God hadn’t chosen to “court” and “marry” unbelievers. So it can’t be intrinsically a sin to do so.

Still, the whole point to a warning about unequal oxen is that the stronger ox will die a tortured and protracted death for the sake of the weaker ox. You should look toward deciding (sooner or later) if he’s worth that risk to you personally, and if God actually is calling you to die for his sake particularly (if it comes to that).

(I take dating very seriously as a sort of try-out process for marriage, so I’m assuming from your request you aren’t just talking about casual dating, but about dating that might feasibly go somewhere perhaps.)

I would have married my most beloved if there hadn’t been other factors involved, even if she wasn’t yet a Christian; but of course one of the first and rather important issues there is “what kind of wedding would it be?!” I would want a religious marriage, but I wouldn’t have wanted her to perjure herself (even before other people but especially before God) by professing what she doesn’t believe, or even by participating in a sacramental relationship when she can’t believe what’s being claimed about that sacramentality to be true. But if I agree to a marriage “less” than that, then what am I doing? I would have sacramentally given myself for her sake anyway (and did do so anyway as far as I was allowed), so I would have looked for a way to do that in a fashion that left her room to not be falsely professing something she didn’t believe but also to grow into that relationship (or into a recognition of that relationship insofar as it was happening even from her side but she didn’t realize it yet). But it couldn’t help but be problematic, and not only for me but for my Christian family at least. (Maybe for her family, too, who although they grew up socially Christian I understood to be rather lapsed at best.)

Still, I’m glad things are going well so far. You sound rather smitten with him, too. :smiley: Just count the cost, which of course is what you’re already doing. I hope things work out for you both, whichever way that would best be.

#10

Dear JaelSister,

I have been partnered with a “non-believer” for 19 years now. He is a beautiful soul and is way more of a “Christian” than most Christians I’ve met. His “issue” with Christianity is due to that fact that as a child he went to FIVE different churches all claiming to have “the Truth” and if one didn’t believe in THAT particular church, well, they were headed for hell or annihilation. So as a child he figured that religion was man made and not of God. I will say he is a much better witness as he lives his life by the Sermon On The Mount by Emmett Fox circa 1934. Yes, it has it’s challenges, but I wouldn’t trade him for anyone else!!! :smiley: He is a good, kind, compassionate soul and does not understand all the “hate” that is propagated by churches. My very, very humble opinion is, get to KNOW the guy… I found a gem outside of the faith and then found out he LIVES more of Christ’s teachings without pronouncing it… it’s just part of his soul. I would venture to guess, that he will be in the Kingdom as a first fruit because he treats others with such love and compassion. He has taken very good care of me the last three years while I have been so sick. Ok, so maybe it would have been MORE ideal IF he admitted that there was more than The Universe out there, but again, his heart IS in the right place… ALWAYS! :smiley:

Just MY experience is all, take what you want and leave the rest behind.

Blessings and peace,
Bret

#11

thanks for sharing that…i agree, some people “outside” the faith live more by its principles than the adherents.
not that it’s not best if you can agree with someone on a cosmological level, but the practical aspects of life are worth more than the theoretical…well, most of the time anyway.
this reminds me a bit about the guy in CS Lewis’ The Last Battle, who was shocked to find out that he’d loved Aslan all his life, really, even though he thought he worshiped Tash. it’s a heart thing, and sometimes it can’t be explained with a tick list of beliefs.
anyway, sounds like this guy is a huge blessing to you, a real God send

#12

I would like to add a P.S. to my above post. My best friend, a member of this board, came to see us back in February. His living example of The Christ was SOOO impressive to my partner (we are NOT used to Christians treating us with that kind of love and respect) which left such an impression on my partner that NOW he IS asking about UR, God, AND Salvation. That is ALL due to this friend who chose to LIVE an example of Christ’s life. It was so evident that he loved Jesus and US (he really showed us love and respect), WOW, in 19 years we have never really discussed spiritual matters, until after my bestest friend left!! I want my memorial in a church (if any will allow that) and my partner has now readily agreed to that. He knows how strongly I feel about UR and with the witness of my friend, his giving us love and respect, my partner is way MORE open to the idea of a loving God, because he SAW it through a real, live person with hugs and all. It was “showed” to him, not preached to him. I will be forever grateful to my friend for his example… what a blessing that visit still is months later!! I can’t begin to express my gratitude to my friend for just living love… way better than a sermon or telling us what is right and wrong. Just living it!

Again, only my 2 cents. :slight_smile:

Blessings and thank you BobX3!!!

Bret

#13

Here’s one thing I’ve tried to adopt into my life since coming to Christ. Being a non-believer doesn’t make someone a bad person. On the flip side, being a Christian doesn’t make someone a good person. Now, what would God want more? A person who hasn’t come to him, but who loves his neighbor and lives a good life? Or a Christian who is judgmental, cruel and wicked? I don’t think God discriminates as fully as some of us tend to think. Obviously he doesn’t reject either, and he doesn’t favor one over the other so to speak, but what MEANS more? Being a good person, or just having a title like “Christian” or “Believer”. And, as opposed to evangelical dating as I am, maybe the Lord has put this person in your life so that you can TEACH him, patiently, lovingly and tenderly. Maybe He has tasked you with showing this man the ways of the Lord. Don’t write him off just because he’s not already a Christian, he deserves a chance like anyone else would.

#14

One more thing that “I” think is so important… when we first started dating, WE chose to get counseling for a year. What we learned together was the three “C’s”… commitment, communication, and compromise. This HAS worked wonders for us even though some see us as unevenly yoked AND that because we are two men that our love is not valid. My point really is what Cindy said on another thread that it IS work, but WE have chosen to do the work!!! And after 19 years, we are much better humans because of each other. Ok, no more from me today!! :laughing:

Peace,
Bret

#15

Here’s what happened to me: I met a non believer and we clicked unlike most people that I have ever met in life. But the view of the Bible on sexuality caused her to step back and ask herself if she could be celibate with me (and perhaps: for how long?)…
It really hurts, but this is a very practical issue: can they abstain? Will they give in and tempt you? Will you give in because the intimacy is offered (they may think that you are changing your views when actually you just want to be intimate at that time).
It takes an IRON WILL!!!
That’s a really practical matter :slight_smile:
roof

#16

Thanks kind sir! I’m never sure if the unequally yoked thing is talking about romantic relationships. I think that they could definitely be included in the mix of possible unequal yokings! But some act as if that verse in specifically for marriages. I see it as any relationship that draws you away from God.

PS I doubt you’d think me so lovely if you saw me in the morning before my shower! Soooooooo not a morning person!

#17

Alex, you’re one of the kindest, least offensive people on here! And I’m not easily offended, so don’t worry. I’m glad when people speak their mind.

See, all the things you’ve raised are exactly what bother me. He seems like the type that would respect personal convictions and not fight me. But I find it hard to imagine not being able to share in the worship of God with a partner. Of course, right now it’s just dating. But I don’t want to waste this guys time either. He would be a fabulous Christian lol.
Take it slow seems like the best advice

#18

That last sentence is so true and poignant. Reminds me of “if I talk in the tongues of angels but have not li e, I’m a clanging symbol”. God really does care most about our hearts

#19

While I still am not sure, I haven’t heard a response to William Lane Craig’s comment:
“Look, then, at what Paul says: “Do not be mismated with unbelievers” (v. 14). What could be clearer?”

Read more: reasonablefaith.org/marrying … z1tKvYkyWq

Does the term “mismated” in 2Cor 6 settle the issue? Is Dr. Craig right when he says “what could be clearer”?
Any takes? Let’s keep it exegetical, not emotional, I beg of you!
roof

#20

we put alot of emphasis on that verse. we can’t base an entire doctrine or way of life on one scripture!

Paul was talking to people at s specific time, in a particular culture…we can’t transplant that verse directly into our cultural context directly.

we have to look at the whole Bible. it’s an extreme case, but Hosea was commanded to “mismate” himself with a harlot. this clearly had reasons, in that God wanted to show Israel the depths of His restorative, neverending love. however, i don’t think that takes away from the message that we ought to have such restorative, neverending love for each other, and specifically for our partners… and i do think that in the balance, i think Hosea’s point of view was more relevant to the here and now then Paul’s admonition to the fairly hedonistic Corinthians.