Debate on Universalism at another board

#1 … php?t=3687

If any of ya are interested in following this, or perchance joining in, take a look.

Beware, you’ll come across such asinine arguments as, “many is not all” (regarding Romans 5).


My favorite is: “Why do we have to accept Christ if God’s going to let everyone into heaven?” It almost invariably comes up at the beginning of a discussion.

And it always makes me think of getting tickets for Disneyland.

I have really come to conceive of salvation as restored relationship with God. When you are reconciled to God, you’re in, and the idea of being “in” without knowing God seems incoherent to me.

Enjoy your discussion!


You’re brave, posting on public forum. Hope people don’t get too nasty :confused: It’s painful reading some of the arguments against you. It’s also very disappointing that people, especially when claiming to be Christians, feel the need throw insults, rather than politely reason :frowning:


Hey, isn’t this a public board too? Join the fun, someone! ( :


True, but if anyone started flinging insults, and would not stop, the moderators (rather joining in the insulting) would hopefully politely ask them to stop :slight_smile:

I would join in but I have already too many irons in the fire right now. I pray it goes well.


I tried to register but it said that my email address has been blocked? :confused: But I’ve never even been there before. I sent a message to the admin.


I think my dad joined yesterday…


I’ve tried to join… No response so far. I suspect they’re looking up my Interpol files.


I would suggest that you number the amount of topics being discussed over there, for starters. The more topics, the less organized it gets and everyone demands that their points be addressed. To cover every topic that you guys are trying to simultaneously cover demands a lot of time and commitment. People don’t like to work that hard, it frustrates and stresses them to realize the level of commitment necessary. People are getting frustrated, their level of “frustration tolerance” is nearly exhausted. I would back up and see if you can present the topics and try to accurately present what each person’s argument is without assessing it, but rather just cataloging and clarifying to be fair what are everyone’s arguments. THat discussion is about to blow up and end unless things back up and inventory is taken. A lot of work is necessary. Difficult and time consuming. A rare level of discipline required by all. Can it be pulled off?


For those who have tried to register there, have you read this?



I have tried to keep the discussion as focused as I possibly could. What more can I do?

They simply won’t engage in discussion with me because they despise me, as their behaviour towards me makes rather clear. If any here would like to present a case for universal salvation, that would be most welcome by me.


You could have stayed on one topic, say Romans 5. It just went too many places to stay organized.



Most of my posts were on the topic of Romans 5, but unfortunately, they never really got beyond the many/all hang up.


Ahhhh. No, I didn’t see that.

I’ll try again.


I received similar treatment at an Arminian blog site when I asked questions which I really believed are true. They were so upset and rude simply due to the fact that I’m a EU. Once I realized that some were just disagreeing with me without having any real substance in their arguments, I concluded they simply despised my views that God’s heart is a universalist heart (He wants all to be saved). So I kindly left and told the writer I’d continue learning Arm. from his blog but would refrain from antagonizing anyone due with questions. I left it at that.

This site was really founded for 2 particular reasons.

  1. To keep communication with Gregory Macdonald (Robin Parry)
  2. To create a forum where we could sharpen each other and create a dynamic website where we could challenge the other views.

So don’t sweat them treating you that way. The Matrix is a tricky thing to get people to realize. Unfortunatley, those who think they’re out of it are still very much in it (sort of like Inception - a dream within a dream).

God Bless bro.



I know, I read most of it. It did veer off a bit, though. Realize that every discussion has its’ impasse.
They have every right to reject your interpretations. That being said, why not take the equivalent of a deep breath, summarize the arguments from both sides, see where each actually stands on each point (if there is no interpretation given, simply record this). Then ask if they want to continue from there. If they don’t, just move on…



I agree that the discussion could have been more focused, but I’m not sure that it would be possible to have those folks stick to one specific idea at a time. Do you think you could have done any better with that bunch?


Aug, don’t the Arminians believe that God wants all to be saved?

Thanks for the post, brother.


A fellow perusing the EU forum came across this thread and decided to register (as “Sadie”) and join the discussion at the forum. He has declined to register here and discuss the topic here. He just started a thread here: … php?t=3708

Here is Sadie’s OP:

Notice how he demands for a text that specifically states that people will exit the Lake of Fire. It is not enough for him to be persuaded that a verse/passage clearly teaches that all will be saved, even though such a verse/passage would, of course, logically necessitate that people a leave the lake of fire. I’ve pointed this out to him, but to no avail. LOL. C’mon guys, get over there. This is good fun.


When I pointed out to Sadie that any scripture that supports universal salvation necessarily supports the notion that people leave the lake of fire, he submitted this logical gem:

I admit, that one made me smile. :smiley: