Today Phillip MacDonald shared on another thread a fine blog article called False Teachers, False Prophets, Heretics and Wolves, by George Sarris, an open Universalist.
You can check out Phillip’s thread to read it if you haven’t already, it’s quite good.
Anyways, I decided to message George on Facebook and he accepted my friend request, and I tried to defend him on the blog, here was my first comment:
"Hi, my name’s Matt. I’ve just recently come to embrace the hope of universal reconciliation in Christ, and I believe this is the direction God is leading me in, and an answer to many tearful and desperate prayers over the years…
Stating that fact alone, sadly, will probably get me a few, if not many, disagrees on here.
I would say this though:
If any of you knew how much I’ve wrestled with and agonized over the years because of the doctrine of everlasting hell, and the picture of God that it painted in my heart and mind, you might have more sympathy and understanding towards what I now believe…
There are many who have suffered emotional and mental turmoil, like I have, because of these things…
While some debate these ideas, trying to win arguments and defend their positions, others struggle deeply with the true implications of these ideas, wondering if they can really trust God, with their lives, with their hearts, with their futures, and with the future of the world they live in, and if He really loves them and those around them, and is as compassionate and gracious as they’ve been told…
Whether or not you agree is one thing… but when there are those who have suffered deeply because of the fears and doubts brought about by these ideas, shouldn’t you love your neighbor, be gracious to them, rather than attack them or scold them or condemn them?
Disagree if you wish, but Jesus calls us to love our enemies (which could include anyone we disagree with) which means to some extent respecting them and caring for them… and that’s clear, and not something any of us should ignore.
Easier said than done of course, but it’s clear.
With that said, I think what George had to say was thought-provoking, and heartfelt as well, and for those of you who disagree with what he believes, but have still shown him respect and compassion, I commend you.
But those of you who would condemn him… guys, honestly, he just lost a close friend because of what he believes, and he’s sharing from his heart about that, and his heart is broken because of it… is it really loving to throw salt on the wound by condemning him for what he believes? Do you believe that is something Jesus would do? Isn’t the Lord near to those who are brokenhearted and crushed in spirit?
I know that there will be some here who will click ‘disagree’ just because they disagree with my beliefs about God and His plan for humankind, and that’s your decision, and I respect that, but please don’t click disagree because you think it’s okay to dogpile on someone who’s hurting.
Because it’s not.
Just give this some thought, okay?
May Jesus be our peace, and break down all the walls of hostility.
In response to this, I got a semi-positive response from a guy named John, who basically said that though he didn’t agree with my conclusions, he still sympathized. I thanked him for that.
But the other two comments were less positive… so here was my response to them:
From star2: edwardtulane82 - Are you really born-again? Please share your testimony on how you came to faith in Jesus Christ and how He changed your life after you believed and presumably received Him as Savior and Lord.
To star2 - star2 - I would have to tell you a long, drawn out, up and down story, which I really don’t have the time to tell. But I’ll try to summarize…
Suffice it to say that I started out as an atheist/agnostic who hated Christianity, but then things started happening in my life that convinced that God was real, and that I was wrong… and as for Jesus, I believe that He is the Son of God, the Savior of the world, and Lord of all, and I was drawn to Him because in Him I saw that God knows how we feel, what the struggle of being a human being is like, and cares and understands and can be trusted…
I came to see this gradually… I’ve prayed for salvation, for Him to come into my heart, all those things that people say you’re supposed to do… but I think He chose me, and that matters more then my choosing Him… but this simple faith that I was given was often clouded over by those things about God that I didn’t understand, places in the Bible where God seemed cold and mean (I’m seeing that differently now), things people said in church or in other books, and most of all, more than anything, the doctrine of everlasting hell, and the perception that doctrine gave me of God…
I have many family and friends who are not believers, and I care about what happens to them, and I couldn’t understand why God didn’t seem to… the whole thought of God giving up on anyone never made sense to me, namely because He hadn’t given up on me, and I was left wondering ‘why me, and not them?’ So sometimes I’d be scared, or angry, or confused about the whole thing… and I wrestled deeply with it all, more deeply then probably any of you here ever have… and I am not saying that to impress you or anyone else…
I wouldn’t want you or anyone else to suffer like I’ve suffered because of these things… wouldn’t wish that on anyone… and this lasted for a number of years up until recently, when I gradually came to believe in universal reconciliation… and now that anxiety and fear and lack of trust in God is fading…
I know that some of you here think that I’m on the wrong path, and question whether God is leading me in this, but I’ll tell you this… the ‘gospel’ plus ECT was never really ‘good news’ to me, and only ever brought me despair… and I’m not going back there.
For my own sanity’s sake, I just can’t.
But I believe that this is part of the answer to all those lonely, desperate cries and prayers over the years, and you may not think so, but I do, and with all due respect, you can’t this hope away from me, no matter how much you may want to.
You are, you are all, just as human as I am, and don’t know everything, nor understand everything, anymore then I do, not about God or Scripture or life, or me for that matter.
Your view of God is just your view, just as mine is mine.
Your interpretation of Scripture is just interpretation, just as mine is.
Your outlook on life is limited to your own perspective, just as mine is.
And my story runs deeper then you can see, just as I’m sure your story runs deeper then I can see.
This is all a matter of faith, not sight. None of us now for absolutely sure what is behind the veil, what death will bring.
We have no absolute proof, no matter how much we would like to think we do. If we did, there would be no need for faith. And we only have faith, not sight… at least not yet. It’s like making a wager, a modified Pascal’s wager.
I wager on a good God who’s righteousness and mercy kiss each other, who’s justice and grace go hand in hand, and all for one purpose… to set the captives free, which is all of us, everyone, and to make all things new…
If God could love and redeem a messed up guy like me, then He can love and redeem anyone… and everyone… and if all things are possible with Him, and if He is willing that all will come to Him, and be reconciled with Him, as the Scriptures seem to indicate, then I believe He can do that, and though you may not agree with that, you can’t really say for sure that it could never happen, because you don’t know everything, don’t have God all figured out anymore than I do, because you’re just a man like me.
So as for me, I’m going to take a shot and believe in something that gives me hope and makes sense to me, rather then try to keep forcing myself to believe in something that doesn’t make sense to me and leads me to despair… you may think that’s naive, or silly, or that I’m misguided, or deceived, but did you ever dream of wonderful and beautiful things when you were a child? Did you ever wonder?
I think many of those in the church today have lost that sense of wonder, the childlike faith that is open to possibilities, to what may seem like impossibilities, because our God, as we know, is a God of the impossible…
But we can still wonder and hope like we did as children… many of our hopes are shattered throughout our lives, but if our hope is in God, should we be afraid of that?
Should we be afraid that He will disappoint us, or that He will break His promises?
He says that His love never fails, and that He is mighty to save.
I am willing to take Him at His word in these things… I have prayed for the salvation of all, as have many others throughout history… will God ignore those pleas, will He give us something less then what we ask for?
Isn’t He the One who gives us more then we can ask or imagine, not less?
Just as Paul was willing that he would be cut off for the sake of Israel, I am willing to be cut off for the sake of my family and my friends, and even for everyone.
I would be willing to stand in the gap, just as Abraham did for Sodom, just as Moses did for Israel, and as Paul did as well…
And perhaps this is what God is looking for… people who love mercy… ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice…’ People who are willing to stand up for those who are lost and not yet found, who are far from God and need to be brought near…
Do you care about what happens to humanity? If you do, then how much more do you imagine God does? And if He cares so much, and has the power to save everyone, who are any of us to be totally closed to the possibility that He actually will, that the good news really is good news of great joy for all people, that Jesus came to save everyone, including me, and you…
From grace2: edwardtulane82 - God will not lead you into a belief that goes contrary to His Word.
To grace2: grace2 - You probably know many of the proof texts that universalists use, just as I’m sure you have a lot of proof texts for your position, but for me, as far as Scripture goes, the best evidence for the salvation of all through Christ is simply
God’s character… here’s an example, one of my favorite passages in the Bible, which I can relate to very much and encourages me even more:
From Lamentations chapter 3 -
19 I remember my affliction and my wandering,
the bitterness and the gall.
20 I well remember them,
and my soul is downcast within me.
21 Yet this I call to mind
and therefore I have hope:
22 Because of the LORD’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
24 I say to myself, “The LORD is my portion;
therefore I will wait for him.”
25 The LORD is good to those whose hope is in him,
to the one who seeks him;
26 it is good to wait quietly
for the salvation of the LORD.
27 It is good for a man to bear the yoke
while he is young.
28 Let him sit alone in silence,
for the LORD has laid it on him.
29 Let him bury his face in the dust—
there may yet be hope.
30 Let him offer his cheek to one who would strike him,
and let him be filled with disgrace.
31 For no one is cast off
by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,
so great is his unfailing love.
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to anyone.
That’s what this all comes down to… God’s character, God’s heart.
Jesus, while on the cross, said ‘Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.’
He said this of his enemies, of the people who were in rebellion towards God, the people that didn’t believe in Him, the people that didn’t follow Him, the people who had put Him up on that cross…
I believe that is a glimpse of God’s heart…
Yes, He will judge, but mercy triumphs over judgment, yes there are those who will be thrown into the outer darkness, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth… but weeping remains for a night, and joy comes in the morning… and yes, God will show his wrath over the wickedness of the world… but His anger lasts only for a moment, while His favor lasts for a lifetime…
The Lord will not cast off forever, the Scriptures say… and they say that His love never fails.
They say that He loves His enemies, and that’s why we should too… and if His love never fails, then doesn’t stand to reason that His love for His enemies will never fail either, and that He means to make His enemies His friends?
I know He can do that… my life is evidence of that… evidence that He never gives up on making the ugly beautiful, and the wrong right, and the false true, and the old new…
Wow… well, this has already become longer then I perhaps intended, so perhaps I should bring this to a close…
I will leave you both with this poem that I wrote, called Love Makes Us Real:
At the window I wait
for you; I touch the glass -
the rains fall
do you stand at all
here
in the waters
with me?
I look up,
the clouds veil the moon,
the stars,
the heart wanders, wonders,
can one so far,
be at once so near
to me?
In the dark times,
there is a war inside,
and I seek for your light,
but are blind for the tears,
the questions in my mind…
But there are other nights,
when the skies are clear
when the stars shine like promises,
promises you’ve made,
stirred to longing, moved to weep…
wander here, wonder there;
your music pulls at my heart
as I wrestle in the deep…
for this child
love is a question
only death can answer,
only time can tell,
where new life
springs glory
pure as snow
in times of winter…
but I wait now
stepping to
another drum,
in the mud
I look for the right path,
the one to trust,
your hand to hold,
your steps to follow,
the window through which I climb
into your answer,
your heart, and you:
refuge for the child,
and home for all…
Blessings to you all, and peace
Well, that’s what I posted there tonight. Not sure how they’ll respond.
Would appreciate your prayers that what I had to say will have some kind of positive effect there.
Thanks for reading, and blessings