The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Divine Rape?!?

You mean you asked “ME” to explain my statement. I did explain it, I put it into context, I pointed out God’s attributes, I pointed out scriptures that speak of his dealings with unwilling persons (such as Paul) and there are many more that could be applied to the direction I am hinting at; and I included concrete verses that explicitly present God’s unfathomable, benevolent sovereignty despite the fickle wills of men who are prone to evil, and of course fall short of the glory of God and are also quite ignorant.

This is your response?

I can’t help but feel as though you’re not looking for answers at all, if this is the case - you’re being dishonest, and I’ll not condone it by a justifying reply. If you are looking for answers, I surely apologise. But as it stands I have put up the answers as best as I can provide them currently. If you don’t consider them worthy well there is not much I can do, and that is your end of the problem to deal with. I won’t force your eyes open if you keep them shut. But God will have you see one way or another, this I believe by faith which is the evidence of things hoped for and the substance of things not yet seen.

You’re ignoring everything. Context, God’s unchanging attributes, nature, will, sovereignty…the rest of the counsel of the scriptures. You’re even now ignoring me, I suspect.

And I did. As Jesus might say; “You have Moses and the Prophets, hear them…” If you aren’t willing to hear what I have to say, you won’t be convinced until you are faced with it as Thomas the Doubter was.

Because that isn’t what it says. It doesn’t say he “couldn’t” neither does it say he is “unable” - “ultimately” or “irreversibly” as it says almost immediately after “until you say, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”.

God is patient, Jesus left rejected, waited, came back, was received with praises - and was crucified as per the will of God ordained that he had to be in order to draw all men to himself and save them, and be received by them, and Salvation be received by them, even Israel who at first rejected him so the Gentiles may be shown mercy; yet all Israel shall be saved as it is written.

God is not feeble, his patience (long-suffering, and forbearance, and goodness) is meant to lead us to repentance.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

It will not fail, because God is Love, and Love never fails.


Ultimately you need to understand three things.

  1. Though man has a will that he enacts (free-choice) God has his will that he too enacts.

Proverbs 16:9 A man’s heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

  1. The will of man is finite, the will of God is infinite. God’s will ultimately outlasts Man’s will; hence God can be very patient, and work through the wills of men being above it, and superior to it. In other words, God is infinite, his will is infinite, he is patient, his will outlasts man’s will, he outlasts man, and he is sovereign. Therefore he wins ultimately the waiting game, as well as the contest of wills. He isn’t defeated in his desire to do good, over man’s desire to do evil.

Proverbs 14:19 The evil bow before the good; and the wicked at the gates of the righteous.

Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

48 “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (repaying good for evil, which leads to overcoming evil with good)

Proverbs 25:21-22 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

Rom 12:20-21 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

  1. God is omniessential. There are no surprises for him. His plan is ever working towards His goals, even through or even despite the choices of men in their wills. God is a parent, a child might will one thing, but the parent’s will shall be done; especially since The Parent’s will (God’s will) is perfectly good, and for the good of his children, and he is the father of all.

Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Oxy, as your brother in Christ, I’m really trying to help you here: if you want a short, easy to read summary of the biblical view of how your verse fits in, this is it right here.

Just wanted to make sure you don’t miss it for all the words going back and forth.

(Although, Lefein and dirtboy, I must say you’ve done a great job presenting a biblical case for how Jerusalem-temporarily-rejecting-Jesus fits into God’s patient salvific will for everyone :mrgreen: )

Now that they’ve answered you, Oxy, it’s your turn to please explain what I asked earlier. Take your time–we’re patient. :mrgreen: