RIGHT! It is faulty reasoning to move from “There are factual errors in the Bible” to “You cannot trust the Bible.” It’s analogous to saying, “My professor made an error in his lecture this morning, so his lectures can’t be trusted.”
These factual errors show only that the writers of the Bible were not preserved by God from making human errors in their writings, and thus their writings are not infallible.
No. It would only indicate that Jude made a human error.
Bob, I like your post.
, and I agree.
I don’t believe in the Levitical law. Although it contains some truths, it is filled with human doctrines( not inspired by God) and commandments of men as Jesus and the prophets say. I don’t think that it all came from Moses, and to me it really doesn’t belong in the scriptures of the Christian faith. A lot of its teachings are not of the God of Israel which makes me wonder what happened to the real writings of Moses and teachings of Abraham?
Speaking on the topic of growing new limbs… you guys would be really interested in the area of “rib regeneration.” You can make the link to Adam in Genesis, but just do some research on the regenerating rib from a scientific perspective and it’s actually quite amazing.
It is interesting that you mention this because it really begs an important question. If we can learn how to do “miracles” such as modifying our DNA to allow us to fight aging, perhaps stop it, or regrow limbs back and we use that as proof that God can and does exist, doesn’t that actually reduce God to a technologist? I mean, sure he can do all these things, but it isn’t magic, it is merely technology/biology manipulation. While this may seem like splitting hairs, I think many Christians would have a very difficult time suggesting that God could merely be, a super version of us, which doesn’t actually defy physics of this realm, but merely manipulates it.
I suspect that separating God’s work from ‘scientific’ explanations is tricky, as seen in the old cliché that religion and science are addressing different questions.
I think it was A. J. Ayers who said that when we answer ‘why’ questions, e.g. “Why it rained (or how and what caused it to happen)?,” by saying that God did it, we haven’t explained very much. Science will always want to pursue the mechanisms by which the event came about, but religion is answering on another level about ultimate purpose and causation. Whether it’s evolution and biological development, or healing, etc, I’m not sure we can avoid differentiating these two kinds of answers.
Agreed and, I would think, it is not desirable to conflate those ideas, because then it is inevitable that we end up in disagreements and distortions.
For instance, the language used in mathematics and most science - words like ‘proof’ or ‘certainty’ - are absolutely necessary and correct in that context, and have a very specific meaning for THAT context. (or “Language game” - LW).
But the same words - ‘proof’, ‘certainty’ - in other contexts are very different.
“Can you prove that your wife loves you?” - well, what would YOU accept as proof? I can give you my reasons, but if they are not what YOU consider ‘proof’ then, no, I can’t prove to YOU that my wife loves me. OTOH, she shows it every day in one way or the other, that’s the ‘proof’ I go by.
“Can you prove that everything was not created yesterday - our memories, ourselves - all brought into existence in one moment?” What would YOU accept as proof? I have a ton of reasons for believing the earth is much older than one day, but in your sense of proof, perhaps no, I cannot.
Just a couple of simple examples to show how the rigors of scientific method are not necessary nor productive in most other situations. Of course the question is more complex than that.
“Can you prove the Bible gives us truth about ourselves, God, and creation?” Ok, what is proof to YOU? I can give more than a ton of reasons to say yes, if studied with intelligence and openness, and treated empirically - by that I mean that faith is not just intellectual assent to propositions, but must be lived out to see the validity of it - then the bible will show itself to be internally consistent, full of wisdom, and true. If, in other words, it is approached much as in Bob’s excellent letter to TH. (Adding, perhaps, the necessary dimension of transcendence :-))
“I am far of course from denying that every article of the Christian Creed, whether as held by Catholics or by Protestants, is beset with intellectual difficulties; and it is simple fact, that, for myself, I cannot answer those difficulties. Many persons are very sensitive {239} of the difficulties of Religion; I am as sensitive of them as any one; but I have never been able to see a connexion between apprehending those difficulties, however keenly, and multiplying them to any extent, and on the other hand doubting the doctrines to which they are attached. Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt, as I understand the subject; difficulty and doubt are incommensurate. There of course may be difficulties in the evidence; but I am speaking of difficulties intrinsic to the doctrines themselves, or to their relations with each other. A man may be annoyed that he cannot work out a mathematical problem, of which the answer is or is not given to him, without doubting that it admits of an answer, or that a certain particular answer is the true one. Of all points of faith, the being of a God is, to my own apprehension, encompassed with most difficulty, and yet borne in upon our minds with most power.” -JH Newman
Here’s an interesting YouTube video. Just because science can explain it…doesn’t mean they can “initiate” the miracle - especially in primitive times.
25 Bible Stories With Logical SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATIONS
So take the Roman Catholic miracle, of growing back a limb. It’s theoretically possible, to alter human DNA…so that it would be akin to lizards and other animals, that grow limbs back. Perhaps in the future, science might provide the exact DNA sequence in humans. Perhaps with the help of AI and supercomputers. And they may even duplicate it - in humans. But they didn’t have the technology…back when the Roman Catholic Church, investigated and pronounce the miracle - of the human limb regrowth (AKA Miracle of Calanda).
This article might prove useful
The process of certifying miracles in the Catholic Church goes back centuries and involves an investigation by scientific experts.
Nearly all, or “99.9 percent of these are medical miracles,” O’Neill said. “They need to be spontaneous, instantaneous and complete healing. Doctors have to say, ‘We don’t have any natural explanation of what happened,’” O’Neill said.
A woman whose breast cancer was cured wouldn’t qualify, for instance, if she was given a 10 percent chance of survival — she would need to be told there was no chance of survival before any divine intervention, said the Rev. Stephan Bevans, a theology professor at the Catholic Theological Union.
Here are some other “interesting” videos and forum discussions
A caveat
A few decades ago, I was in a martial arts class. One of the instructors, “allegedly” had a severed leg - via a boating accident. He fell out of a boat, and the boat motor - partially severed his leg. Now the doctors couldn’t do, anything for him. All the kings horses and all the kings men (i.e. medical tests, treatments and specials), couldn’t put Humpty together again (AKA martial arts instructor). But he was given some “little known”, martial arts “practices” to preform. Well, he claimed that the nerves started to regenerate and mend together. And he was completely healed. I had known him, for a few months. So I believe his story - whatever the explanation.
There is only one God—and He is infallible. If everything written in the Bible were “the word of God,” then the Bible would be infallible, too. There are many who believe that to be the case. I am not one of them.
Dave, I don’t think it’s all that difficult to understand the word of God. It seems a lot of the intellectual difficulties are produced by people who have become “vainly puffed up by their fleshly minds”.
Paidion, Neither am I.
mik, That’s very interesting.
To me, the whole human body, heart and mind, are amazing.
I don’t see why one has to see humans fly before he/she believes in a God. Well we do fly, and that’s plenty enough evidence for me to believe in a Creator.
Yeah good thoughts on that Gabe. I guess we can be more amazed at things we yet don’t understand.
@Bob_Wilson
@Hermano
If anyone cares to open this link and start at 6 minutes in (for just one minute), I believe that this Jew addresses a question which Hermano and Bob were discussing:
Yes, of course Jews think the cited passages sound like (the NT portrait of) Jesus. For the whole intent of the NT writers was to align Jesus with those texts. But most Jews see no reason to trust the NT accounts, which they see as purposely being written to fit the OT which the writers already had in front of them.
This is a good quote, from a medicine person (i.e. Native American) on Facebook. It is probably, very applicable here. Medicine to Native Americans, is anything that heals (i.e. Western modern medicine, Native American ceremonies, prayer, etc.):
This is what the Medicine’s have taught Me over 25 years. Make the Prayer, Make a good Prayer for your Life, then pay attention, listen and wait. In My experience the Prayer is always answered and I can promise you it will never show up the way you think. Be mindful and clear about what you want and be willing to take right forward action when the Prayer begins to unfold and manifest itself and always always listen to the Medicine… Happy Spring everyone…
Medicine Person? The authors’ gender is unknown? 
I’m being “politically correct”, by calling males and females medicine people. Or a single medicine man or woman - medicine person. For the record, it’s a male. So technically, he’s a medicine man.
P.S. Please note that Sean Connery, uses a cuss word or 2 - in this video. But the movie is rated P.G. and lives up to YouTube’s standards of excellence.
Randy, you must fight that dark side of the Force!! Not even Zombies have gender issues. I don’t think.
You are right, Dave. I must fight the “dark side”. A good looking, female zombie - might look hot to me. 
Here’s a related, forum thread article…from today’s Patheos Evangelical newsletter
I believe such passages not only describe Jesus, but many others who suffered for the truth of God. " But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit."(Gal.4:29).
Bob, I think you’re right. He was one of many suffering servants of God.
What do we do with those texts?