and
It’s beginning to sound a lot like Calvinism.
“[The Reformers’] creed has been described as a return to the Gospel in the spirit of the Koran.”
The Very Rev. W. R. Inge, The Platonic Tradition in English Religious Thought, 1926
I think if they saw that their destiny is to restore the creation, arm in arm with Jesus, it could help- but they are mostly stuck between heaven and hell. Christian heaven being some kind of nirvana of hymn singing and praise and staring at Jesus for a thousand years every once in a while between flying around with angels(for the daring)… you know, just so ecstatically grateful not to be burning forever like those folks screaming over on the other side of the wall down in the ditch of molten lava. 
Actually, Paidion, you might have come up with an interesting insight:
And the article also says this:
You just need to read the book What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an by James W. White (available via your local US public library - or equivalent in other countries). Or watch the Theosophical Society webcast this Thursday, 1/28/16 at 7 PM CST on Islamic Spirituality: The Role of Religious Law, by a professor in religious studies. He’s at the College of Dupage (with a PhD from Yale). Or watch the rebroadcast, about a week later, at Theosophical Society rebroadcasts
When I was 21, I attended a Bible school for a year. I recall that the History-of-Missions instructor spoke of a Muslim who had killed his wife, and who then stated that it was the will of God.
I believe that watching the Yale PhD philosophy professor, speak on Islamic law - has the option for remote questions. If so, I plan to ask about fatalism in Islam. If we assume a 100% deterministic theological and philosophical model of reality and God, then why do anything? And if we accept the Muslim’s view on killing his wife, then God creates both evil, and metal illness. But I feel strongly - that the Muslim (being laity) - got it wrong! The Christian site Answering Islam, gives the answer that Islamic scholars would give:
Total predestination - or the free will of man?
And let’s look at some Quora answers regarding this:
Does Islam and the Quran negate the idea of free will?
How does Islam reconcile Allah’s omniscience and human’s free will?
Does Islam say that human beings have free will?
How is free will in Islam in the light of this verse?
But fatalism is very strong - in both Islam and Calvinism. We might as well accept this Christian woman’s version, that the devil made her buy that dress:
Randy wrote:Plus there is a certain amount of fatalism in Islamic theology and philosophy.
It’s beginning to sound a lot like Calvinism.
Yes actually Calvinism on steroids. Like if a women gets raped, she is killed for it possibly because it was Allah’s will?
Well, Steve, i’m not here to defend Islam. That’s a job for Muslims, on Muslim and secular forums (i.e. Quora). But I would say they are mixing tribal customs with Islam. No secular court would let them get away with it. Nor would most - if not all - **legitimate **Islamic courts. Unless it’s some goofy faction like ISIS.
Well, Steve, i’m not here to defend Islam. That’s a job for Muslims, on Muslim and secular forums (i.e. Quora). But I would say they are mixing tribal customs with Islam. No secular court would let them get away with it. Nor would most - if not all - legitimate Islamic courts. Unless it’s some goofy faction like ISIS.
Well Randy my source are ex Muslims who became Christians and talk about Islam and what it’s holy books the Quran and Hadith actually say. So it is second hand info but corroborated by three or four people usually.
Which raises an interesting point, that was brought to me years ago - by a Buddhist scholar. He said that many who become imans (i.e. Islamic clerics), actually are uneducated. Imaging a similar situation, where many of our priests and ministers just purchased an online ordination certificate and are preaching to us, on how to conduct our lives, what the bible says, etc.
The other point is my friendship with Muslims, is limited to those in the US, who are professionals (i.e. doctors). I’m very much opposed to an Islamic state or country (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.). Just as I’m opposed to dictatorships - like North Korea. Church and state should be separated - period. End of Story.
the “big picture” is this:
While they say there are only two divisions - Sunni and Shiite - in reality, they are as divided as any religion. The Islamic scholars - for example - are debating which Hadith to accept and reject. Which to include and exclude.
The secular Academic scholars have a different picture of what Islam is saying or trying to say.
The popular imans - often not educated - often mix tribal customs, with what they think Islam is saying
Not quite the end of story. Initially, the separation of church and state was not for the purpose of keeping the church out of the state, but for keeping the state from interfering with the church.
Aha
I just posted a very interesting article in the ‘Controversial’ part of the Forum. Having to do with the ‘same God’ question, Islam and Christian.
I’m very much opposed to an Islamic state or country (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.). Just as I’m opposed to dictatorships - like North Korea. Church and state should be separated - period. End of Story.
OK I agree but i’m sure you know in Islam their is no separation between church and state because Islam is not just a religion it is also “state” in the sense of it’s Sharia law which is the law of state as well as church.
Yes, I’m very familiar with it. Actually, I’ve been advising the head of the Anglican church I attend. The local Islamic center (actually, a Pentecostal church they took over - near where I live) invited them for fellowship. I’m giving him information, so he can make an informed decision. But here is the US, church and state are separate (however we want to spin it - chicken or egg scenario). And I’ll fight, to keep it that way. 
The local Islamic center (actually, a Pentecostal church they took over - near where I live) invited them for fellowship.
Sorry if i’m beating a dead horse but I did want to comment on this. Islam taking over a church as opposed to a neutral site is common and is looked at as a conquest. Islam giving up a religious spot or land it occupied is a major insult to the religion.
The only point I find in common with Islam, is with their Sufi mystical movement. There they focus on God as all around and capable of striving for union. But many orthodox Muslims don’t like the Sufis. I don’t judge folks on what religion they belong to. I’m more concerned with how they try to emulate Christ - even if they belong to the Christian faith.
Actually, I hung around Muslims and Christians (Roman Catholics and Assembly of God) both - as a Peace Corps volunteer in Liberia, West Africa. The Muslims were ivory carvers, traders in artwork, etc. I was a guest of a Muslim in Sierra Leone, West Africa. I was treated well by them, even through I was not Muslim. And my homeopathic physician has a Muslim family (even though he is agnostic and scientific). I even went to the son’s wedding (he is a physician).
And to make Steve feel better, I’ll share this video and article from the Christian site Patheos today:
Summit Lecture Series: A Muslims Journey to Christ with Nabeel Qureshi, part 6
And if you watch the first two minutes, you understand:
My liking of the Indigenous folks, regarding their visions and dreams
My deceased mom’s lifelong gift of prophesy
And if this vision stuff is working for the average Muslim - why NOT the Christian? 
Is it because you no longer believe in it? T**hink about this - seriously.
**
Having said that, I’m all for cooperation among western intelligence services (i.e. Europe, Indian, Chinese, US, Canada, Israel, and Russia), to keep tabs on what the “radical” Islamic elements are up to (of course, things will be smooth sailing, if Trump is elected US president 
See Jerry Falwell, Jr Endorses Donald Trump for President; Trump Still Leads in Evangelical Support).
And to make Steve feel better, I’ll share this video and article from the Christian site Patheos today:
Summit Lecture Series:
Nabeel is an awesome guy, I have seen him many times. I have no issue with individual muslims, they are just people like everyone else.
Most are unfamiliar with the militant aspects of Islam and are cultural muslims even if they pray five times a day. But when the women start wearing these black outfits covering everything except two slits for their eyes then it’s time to pay attention.
A friend of mine sent me this video link today. I found it interesting, so I would share it here - for better or worse:
Hi, Gaz. I spent 4 months in London - many decades ago. It’s a fascinating city, full of museums, theater and diverse food cultures. When I’m not in Gallifrey or the Twilight zone, I hang around the Chicago area. 
Church and state separation are part of the US constitution. I neither want the government interfering in church matters (i.e. how we worship, etc). Or the opposite. An Islamic state (i.e. church in the loose sense), dictating how we run our lives by religious law. It’s a simple enough matter.
http://f.tqn.com/y/politicalhumor/1/S/6/M/6/Church-State-Separation.jpg
On another matter, I recommended 2 sources for Islam:
You just need to read the book What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an by James W. White (available via your local US public library - or equivalent in other countries). Thew author is Christian.
Islamic Spirituality: The Role of Religious Law, by a professor in religious studies. He’s at the College of Dupage (with a PhD from Yale). He’s also an Orthodox Christian. Unforunately, there was some technical difficulties, 50 minutes into the presentation. But I’m sure it’s recorded properly. You can watch the rebroadcast, about a week later (i.e. perhaps around Feb. 5,2016), at Theosophical Society rebroadcasts