The Evangelical Universalist Forum

EUs, Arminis & Calvs -- OH MY!!!

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#81

Eric, not all Calvs decry Kaths as being Satanic; Jaxxen doesn’t, including in that quote you provided. Some Calvs are willing to allow that Kaths can be in the process of regeneration and so desire the truth and living God. Calvs generally believe errors about God will be corrected for the elect eventually.

Also, false teaching isn’t necessarily morally malicious in intention: teaching falsehood isn’t necessarily lying, it could just be teaching mistakes. On the other hand, someone could be teaching the purest orthodoxy and still be a false teacher in malicious intentions. (St. Paul has some things to say against teachers abusing his audience even though he’s glad that even by them the gospel is being spread, for example.)

We try to be lenient to newcomers who don’t understand this forum isn’t a place to accuse other people of serving false gods; TD was only here a couple of days before leaving for a while, so he wasn’t here long enough for the ad/mods to start serving him formal warnings. We have been extremely lenient about universalist members accusing other people of serving false gods, too, and non-universalist members have a right to complain about that, since it smacks of favoritism.

That being said, it remains a fact that we’ve chosen to eventually ban more universalists than non-universalists from the site over the years (probably due to the relative population numbers involved). I don’t know any universalists who are currently being considered for banning, but it might be of some reassurance to non-uni visitors.

#82

TD, being called a radical fundamentalist when you ACT VERY radical (with various all-cap emphases and lots of punctuation) and INSIST!!! on various TENETS of fundamentalism, isn’t inaccurate; Eric might be intending to denounce you thereby, but not all fundamentalists would regard it as an insult. It also doesn’t count as demonizing opponents as servants of Satan etc.

The specific topics you bring up are typically discussed in detail all over the board, which is why people aren’t all that concerned about replying to you in mass detail in one thread. Also, you don’t show much interest in listening to technical replies anyway.

The number of threads discussing what the Greek adjective {aiôniôs} means, for example, probably numbers in the hundreds, and Matt25 is probably discussed an average of once a month or more. It very demonstrably doesn’t always mean “eternal” in the sense of “having infinite duration”, even when one of two things being described as {aiôniôs} does arguably mean eternal in that sense, and there is some argument about whether it ever means “eternal” at all in the Greek NT or OT; the underlying Hebrew terms have some similar issues, too.

What you’re leaning on is someone’s interpretative translation of the word; what we find is that that translation, and even the interpretation of the translation, is contextually dubious.

Most Christian universalists (including all the site owners and ad/mods) do teach repentance of sin and cleansing in the blood of Jesus.

And Christian universalists believe more strongly than you do that we all not only should but shall "rejoice together in ETERNAL LIFE. :smiley: "

You’re welcome to join us in rejoicing about that at any time. :slight_smile: Or if you think it’s factually or even morally wrong to rejoice about that instead, then of course you shouldn’t. But exhorting us to do something we’re already more committed to than you are, and which excess of commitment you think is wrong, isn’t a good selling point.

Anyway, since you’ve been informed about forum policies against accusing other members of serving false gods, and you have chosen to continue doing so, that means you don’t intend to actually cooperate with the purpose of the forum which is sober discussion of these issues pro and con; which means you also don’t intend to be an actual member of the forum. Your membership is therefore temporarily revoked for a year, unless the ad/mods agree to reduce it to a month or something like that. (You’ll still be able to read the forum as a visitor of course.)

If you decide to be an actual member of this forum next year, your membership status won’t continue being revoked. On the other hand, if you try to get back on before then around the ban, your revocation will be extended indefinitely until you show the administrators substantial evidence elsewhere that you’re willing and able to be an actual member here. (Also, any posts you manage to put up by succeeding in going around the ban will be deleted, since your membership hasn’t been restored yet.)

#83

TD, thank you for your concern, but no worries here, I AM saved by God’s grace and His grace alone.

Blessings,
Bret

#84

Note: TD’s temp-ban is now in effect.

Please don’t reply to TD with challenges hereafter, as he will not be able to reply to defend himself.

#85

Jason, Jesus told those opposing him that they were son’s of their father, the devil. The devil is the father of ALL lie’s and if one chooses over and over to deny and suppress Biblical Truth, then it is fair to say the one is a child of the devil and not a child of God. We cannot be both. Jesus declares this in Revelation 3:15-16 I would say to those opposing Gods Truth, Stop opposing Gods truth and they will truly be freed from their current position as a child of the devil. Real simple. And Jason, Technical replies don’t have soul saving power, Gods True Word on the other hand does. I will leave the Technical discussions for the worldly and the wise and learned to embrace. And by the way…I don’t lean on man’s interpretation, I lean on the Power of the Holy Spirit to confirm Truth. See, the problem is the godless will always be wandering around aimlessly, searching to disprove Gods Truth and search out their own, on their own. Sad

#86

Since the system hadn’t put TD’s ban into effect yet, I expect we’ll let this last post stand without deletion, not counting as trying to get around the ban.

Jesus and authorized apostles & prophets are entirely welcome to come onto the forum and denounce others as servants of Satan. You, TD, are neither Jesus nor an established apostle and/or prophet–you don’t even operate under your own name and verifiable identity but with a pseudonym.

If you want the board owners to accept your prophetic and/or apostolic authority to denounce others as servants as Satan, or even to accept your inspired interpretation by the Holy Spirit, you will have to provide them (next year when your ban runs out) with proofs of who you are and of your miraculous commission from God.

Otherwise we’ll treat you as someone unauthorized to act with prophetic and/or apostolic authority (i.e., as a false prophet), and stick to studying the scriptures instead. :slight_smile:

#87

Jason, Matthew 10:16.This is applied to all who become his disciples. Therefore you honestly and realistically can not treat a Disciple of Christ as a false prophet when they have been anointed by the Holy Spirit of God by their Faith and speak the True Gospel of Jesus Christ. Therefore, I HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED by the Author of Life Himself, Whether you or anyone else likes it or not. And Its actually a command to us from Christ himself to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel. Then again, i guess you can call black…white and white…black ( You referring to me not being a disciple of Christ or having true authority ) if you wish??? :unamused: But wisdom is proven by her actions, a good tree can not produce bad fruit, Truth is Truth and lies are lies and you can not change that. No matter how hard you try :wink:

#88

By the way, concerning my being blocked from this forum ( no real big deal to me),But I just read Matt’s thread on ( forum bullying by anti-calvanist’s ). I must agree with Matt and say…Who are the real hypocrites? Truthfully, my posts are mellow when the replies are mellow. The real issue is the unsaved will naturally squirm when hearing the Truth which convicts them of their sin and then THEY will spew the inner hatred of Truth from their heart like VENOM without realizing it. Then when they cant stand hearing the Truth anymore, comes the mighty call for another to be banned from the forum. These are the minds that help spawn Big,Evil,Tyrannical Governments.

#89

So true. When we insist that God is good, that he is determined to save even his enemies (whom he loves), all sorts of folk leap us and “spew the inner hatred of Truth from their heart like VENOM”. Such people do not want to love their enemies, nor do they hope they will be saved. Far more pleasing is the hope that God will torment them forever.

What makes them so sure this God of theirs will not grow tired of their company also?

#90

It’s just a symptom, Allen, of someone who’s been thoroughly indoctrinated by sermons of questionable wisdom and has “learned the word” by proof texting. I used to think proof texting was the correct use of scriptures – what was I thinking? :unamused: Oops! Did I say THINKING? :laughing:

#91

Speaking of which…

In the Babylonian creation myth, their Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Marduk, defeats Chaos by an act of supreme violence. The Hebrew response to this myth has God speaking a quiet, rational, loving word of creative power into the Chaos, at great personal cost. So great was this cost that God had to rest on the Seventh Day.

Infernalists have God defeating evil by a final, decisive act of supreme violence, namely everlasting hell.

Universalists have God defeating evil by a quiet, rational, loving Word of creative power, at great personal cost.

Interesting, eh?

#92

Thanks Allen. Iwas aware of what you said but just hadn’t assembled in my mind the contrast. :smiley:

#93

very cool thought there, Allen!

True Disciple, you’ve no idea how right you are talking about good and bad fruit!! that is precisely how we must judge. looking back over a long period of infernalism, i see a church torn by power struggles…peddling false hope (health/wealth gospel, name it/claim it, indulgences, penance), idolatry (cults of personality, veneration of saints and the pope), smug arrogant pride, gnosticism (believe doctrine x or go to hell), discrimination, justification of slavery, war, genocide…
at every age there have been those that held to the Greater Hope…those have often been killed or villified by their own church.
i’d say some stern responses on a forum do not come close to that list of horrors. you want bad fruit…there you have it.
i’d liken the responses on here to mere thorns on a rose bush…grown as a natural defense against cruel opposition. the rose doesn’t lash out, but many pierce themselves as they try to assail it.

#94

Allan,Cindy, Corpselight and Charlie Brown…You are ignorantly overlooking common sense. You all talk about how YOU think GOD is or want GOD to be, but our puny, little minds cannot even fathom true rational, let alone HIS WAY. That is EXACTLY WHY GOD had to give us his WORDS and WISDOM , THE GOSPEL. The simple fact is that discipline and true love go hand in hand, Also in the GOSPEL. That’s just common sense people. If there was zero knowledge and fear of GOD in this evil world today, things would be far worse than they are now. You people are lovers of self and wish to make and mold your own gods with your own sinful hands and minds. GOD is not made by man,We where created by HIM. And GOD loves everyone and wish’s for everyone to come to repentance and to be loved by Him and obtain eternal salvation. You people just keep refusing TRUTH for the simple fact that you don’t want to change and conform to what GOD wants of you. Sinful Rebellion. We are commanded to love one another ( even our enemies ) because we are all brothers and sisters in sin until we come to Repentance, and we are not each others judge. God is the JUST JUDGE. And please don’t flatter yourselves…I’m not judging people here by the worlds standard, i am simply refuting lie’s and spreading Truth to a stubborn people who seem to be unwilling to accept it. And Corpselight…Really…Your going to jumble up all the false religions of the world and Christians together into one group, calling that GODS people and say that is what theology and correct doctrine have done for the world. Every thing you listed is what evil humans have done in the world, not what GOD wanted them to do. At the end of the day all you people do continually is resist the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD and His calling of you and you will all pay in the end if you continue to do so. Its called true justice. so again i tell you…REPENT and ask the LOVING GOD of all creation to forgive you and start living for Christ, not yourselves.

#95

I’d submit that you’re the one doing the babbling, since you seem to have no understanding of paragraphs or structured thought.

You claim that you’re one of God’s anointed holy ones, yet you offer no proof at all to justify that claim. Your tone is one of nothing but anger and hatred, so we’re left to conclude that you are preaching about a God of anger and hatred, which you are. You want to put people into the bondage of* your* beliefs, not lead people to the freedom that Christ brings.

You’d be better off going elsewhere to find people to scare into accepting your doctrines of demons.

#96

Cindy, If you owned a real Gospel and truly studied it under the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT, you and I would be on the same page. Grow up.

#97

amen!
when did i EVER say all religions were the same? in point of fact ALL RELIGIONS ARE FALSE.
only Christ is true.
thankfully, we’ll all know that one day…including you, TD, with your false image of God. that also will be corrected,.

again, is the underside of your bridge nice and spacious?

#98

Eric, Be respectful toward me as Bret was and I will change my tone. And I do not need to try and furnish you proof in your hand (REALLY?) that the Holy SPIRIT resides within me. All True Believers will be filled and counseled by GODS HOLY SPIRIT. That is just how it works. Stop rejecting TRUTH and come to CHRIST JESUS and you can be filled to my friend. If everyone here would change their tone with me, they would instantly see mine change. Let’s see.

#99

Corpselight…You don’t know CHRIST. I can furnish proof of that right here and now…You state that my GOD is false and we are in disagreement on every thing. My TRUE GOD is the GOD of THE HOLY BIBLE. THE GREAT I AM. THE FATHER,SON AND HOLY SPIRIT…GOD ALMIGHTY… Who might yours be?

#100

You want people to be respectful towards you? Try being respectful first. You waltz in here with both barrels blazing, then cry like a schoolgirl when you get called on your BS. Until you do that, I’ll use any tone I want dealing with a troll like you.

You’re not a True Believer, you’re just another in a long line of deceivers. The reason you demand people see things your way is so that you and your kind can wield the power of fear over those whom you deceive with your drivel.