Often times in the Bible God strikes fear into the hearts of men. He also does it through nature. We hear things like, “God is a monster”. Why do you think that is?
Edit:
Here’s what I mean by monster:
A strange, terrifying, and powerful person that cannot be controlled
One reason for this could be that God is so often grossly misrepresented as an angry old ogre.
Even Christ is said to be wrathful though:
This wrath is described as their wrath, referring to both Father and Son.
I have to say God at times can seem to be a monster. The holiness of God can and does strike fear into people. It reminds me of what Rudolf Otto called the Mysterium Tremendum when he studied “The Holy”
So, yes I would agree. God can be a monster at times. His holiness can strike fear into the hearts of men.
For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. - Hebrews 10:30-31
*Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is LOVE. (1Jo 4:8)
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is LOVE, and whoever remains in love remains in God, and God abides in him. (1John 4:16)*
So if the essence of God is LOVE, how does this fact fit the concept that “God is a monster at times”?
You refer to the wrath of the Father and Son mentioned in Rev. 6:16. What makes you think that this wrath is monstrous?
While the Son of God lived on earth He showed wrath toward the hypocritical Pharisees, and called them names such as “white-washed walls” and spoke to them of “your father the devil.” But did He ever kill any of them or physically harm them in any way?
Jesus stood up for those who were hated by society—the tax collectors and the prostitutes. The Pharisees thought that a woman caught in adultery ought to be stoned to death according to Mosaic law. But Jesus said, “Okay. Let him who is without sin throw the first stone at her.” Every one of them went away, ashamed. Did Jesus then see that the woman was punished? No, He simply said to her, “I don’t condemn you. Go and sin no more.”
Jesus also said that the heavenly Father is kind to both ungrateful and evil people (Luke 6:35). At no time did He demonstrate any montrosity, nor did He ever ascribe such to His Father!
I hesitate to say what Rudolph Otto may have experienced, but that description does not describe anything resembling Jesus, and Jesus is the incarnate and perfect, complete image of God. He told Philip, "If you’ve seen Me, you’ve seen the Father. So no. God is most certainly not a monster. God is love. All kinds of love to all people and to all kinds of people.
Because the essence of God is Holy, Holy, Holy not love. It doesn’t say God is love, love, love. While it says God is love it doesn’t say He is ONLY love. He also has a Holy wrath.
It’s monstrous because they are crying out to the rocks to hide them from the wrath of the lamb. “Who can stand?” Indeed it’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God:
Hi Cindy,
I think it does resemble Jesus at times. Not all the time. The essence of God is Holy, Holy, Holy not love. It doesn’t say God is love, love, love. While it says God is love it doesn’t say He is ONLY love. He also has a Holy wrath.
The prophet Isaiah Chapter 63, verses 1-3, read as follows:
There we read God’s promise of bloody revenge, verses that were clearly on John’s mind as he wrote Revelation. His robe is stained crimson. But where is Isaiah’s winepress? It’s in this verse:
Michael Cole quoted:
The word translated as “vengeance” above is “εκδικησις”. This word literally means “out of justice”. Now some people think of “justice” as punishment, but that is not the meaning. “Justice” means fairness to all parties. The word ought to be translated as “justice”. The verbal form of the word is “εκδικεω”. It means “to give justice”. Consider the following parable which Christ toldL:
And [Jesus] told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice (εκδικεω) against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice (εκδικεω), so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’” And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God give justice (εκδικησις) to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will give justice (εκδικησις) to them speedily. (Luke 18:1-8)
It was not vengeance which was given to the widow; it was justice. And likewise, said Jesus, justice (not vengeance) will be given to his elect which cry to him night and day. Just like the widow was repaid for the loss caused by her adversary, so God will repay his elect to whom injustice has been done.
In this light, let’ consider the verse you quoted in the light of the above parable as well as in context.
*Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Justice is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Heb. 10:29-31) *
While it is true that God’s justice with the person above who has “trampled the Son of God underfoot” is of a negative kind, and not the vindication of Luke 18, nevertheless it is for the sinner’s own remediation. It is fearful for such a sinner to fall into the hands of God and receive this correction. God brings about his correction (and it may be painful) it out of love and not out of sheer vengeance.
Paidion,
If it wasn’t monstrous they wouldn’t be wanting the rocks to fall on them and hide them. That doesn’t sound like tender kindness to me. Especially when it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. The word is best translated as “vengeance” as Greek scholars would agree. For it tells us elsewhere:
The phrase “God is LOVE” indicates that LOVE is His essence. It doesn’t say merely “God has LOVE”. If that were the case, then one could say that He has other characteristics. But when He IS love, then that is His essential nature and leaves room for nothing else.
To affirm that LOVE is God’s essence, it is not necessary to repeat the word “LOVE” two more times.
You say that the essence of God is “Holy, Holy, Holy”. How can that be His essence? “Holy” is an ADJECTIVE, so that denotes one of His characteristics, not His essence. The word “LOVE” is a noun, and therefore qualifies as an essence.
Paidion,
It says Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty. It’s repeated three times to stress it’s importance. It trumps all other attributes. So, while God is love it’s a Holy love. This is no mere human love. God’s justice is a Holy justice. His wisdom a Holy wisdom. His knowledge a Holy knowledge. While the Bible says God is love. It doesn’t say He is ONLY love. He also has a Holy wrath. Sorry.
That doesn’t follow. Out of fear, people have many unnatural desires. Many in our day commit suicide out of fear, and in most cases their situation is not nearly as fearsome as they think.
Kindness isn’t always tender. The kind discipline of a loving father, who wishes to correct his child may seem harsh to the child. But it may be the most loving act the father could bring about toward him.
Of course it is fearful. God’s discipline may be quite uncomfortable. But it is still loving.
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? … Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Hebrews 12:5-11)
Which Greek scholars? Not all of them. Consider G. Abbott Smith D.D, D.C.L., LL.D. who authored A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament.
The first definition he gives of “εκδικες” is “to vindicate”. He also gives “vindication” as a definition of “εκδικησις”. Vindication is exactly what Jesus said that God would do for his elect who cry to him day and night. (Luke 18:1-8). And the word is “εκδικησις”, the very word you think needs to be translated as “vengeance”. The word “justice” as a translation of the word, takes care of everything, both vindication of the righteous, and correction of the unrighteous.
Paidion,
Even if it’s disciplinary it’s still monstrous:
The Greek word here for scourge is mastigoō and it means whip, flay, scourge. Scourging means “to flay or skin” meaning to whip so as to draw blood. Here’s is how the word is used in the NT:
Pilate did not “have harsh words with Jesus as a loving father” he had him beaten bloody. That was common “discipline” as practiced in Rome at the time. It was also common practice in the synagogue:
The reality is, monstrous beating was common practice then. It was likewise common for children to be whipped bloody at the time too. And according to Hebrews God scourges those He loves.
That is possible. But I repeat “love” is NOT an attribute of God; it is His ESSENCE. And an essence makes no room for anything else. It does leave room for various attributes such as holiness, anger, justice, omniscience, omnipotence, etc. But not for some other essence.
That’s because it is unnecessary to do so since love is His essence. Can you find anywhere in the Bible that God is some other essence?
Does it say that God is hate, or God is anger, or God is vengeance? or that God is a monster? I don’t think so.
I looked up the phrase “God is” in my online Bible program. The phrase occurs 179 times. I examined each one. I have found some such as “God is an everlasting rock” (Isaiah 26:4) but I doubt that you would consider rock to be God’s essence. It’s a figurative statement to indicate that God is stable and unmoving—that is, it gives as ATTRIBUTE of God, and not His essence. The same with “God is a consuming fire.” (Deut 4:24, and quoted in Heb 12:29). Fire purifies, and one of God’s attributes is to purify sinful man. But the one and only essence of God is LOVE. All of His ways and works proceed from LOVE.
Cole, I’m going to put this in very strong terms. Please understand this is my passion for Father and is not directed against you nor intended to hurt you. I say this to help you to read it because if you thought I was angry with you it might make it hard for you to understand what I’m really saying.
Do you take all this gore literally, Cole? It is FAR more true than that. Only very small truths can be conveyed literally. The Lord is holy, holy, holy. Certainly, CERTAINLY He is. It does not follow that He IS holiness (whatever you think holiness IS). He is loving, loving, loving too, even though there is not a specific verse to state this in precisely these terms. However we ARE told that not only is He loving; but that He in fact, IS love.
His robes are dipped in blood? Whose blood do you suppose this to be? I used to think it was the blood of His enemies, and certainly there is ample reason to see that the blood of His enemies does flow in His judgment of them for the sake of those they have oppressed. But the blood on His robes? It is the blood of the covenant – the blood covenant He swore to Abraham and in which Abraham was not permitted to participate. Our God staked His OWN blood to keep the covenant – to keep both His side AND the side of Abraham and his children. It was His own blood that soaked His own body as by OUR hands that dear body was more marred and disfigured than any other man – so marred and disfigured He hardly looked like a man at all. Think of that. THIS is what we did to Him and what He allowed to be done – what He swore Himself TO allow. It was the price of the covenant – the price He KNEW He would be called upon to pay for Adam’s and Abraham’s seed, on whose behalf He swore that very covenant.
Yes, other blood has flowed and other blood will undoubtedly flow in future times, but THAT blood is not the blood of the covenant.
The scriptures point unflinchingly to the ESSENCE of God being love. His holiness is one attribute of His love. His justice and His mercy (often both of these words are translated from the exact same Hebrew and/or Greek word) are also attributes of His love. His judgment is an attribute of His love and so is His anger. Every true description you can give of our Holy God is an attribute of His LOVE. He is shockingly, awesomely, terrifyingly powerful, and He Is LOVE. You do not want to fall on the wrong side of this love, but do not mistake. The wrong side of His love is infinitely preferable to the idea (if it were possible) of escaping from the actions of His purifying and (to the wicked) painful, but ultimately healing love.
His love, Cole, can be a terrifying thing, and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God – but if you’ve done wrong, that is the only safe place to be – in His hands. Because He will bring you right and while He may prefer to do it in the least painful way possible for you and all concerned (including Himself), He WILL do whatever it takes. THAT is what His holiness is. There is absolutely nothing unclean or filthy or depraved or twisted or sadistic or monstrous about it. His holiness is pure fire that burns away all that corruption. He is most certainly NOT the filthiness He is destroying. He is terrifyingly and devastatingly pure and holy. He means us to be perfect and because He intends and purposes it, so shall we be. That includes both All kinds of us and ALL of us. He cannot be expected to satisfy Himself with a mere specimen of one or several or hundreds of examples of each kind (if THAT were possible, as we are each of us a kind unto ourselves thanks to His absolutely infinite creativity and genius). He owns us all. Why, I ask, should He conceivably be expected to let one atom of all that is His go to the enemy or to the void or to some gray prison where WE tell HIM that He must segregate that which we worms believe and authoritatively declare to be beyond His ability to salvage?
Why do we presume to think Him to be like us – weak and prone to failure? I myself fail over and over and over as do we all, and that is only in the space of a day. He is perfect. He never is weak or weary, and His holiness never fails, NOR does any other aspect of His love. I suppose to the wicked desiring to hold onto his wickedness, this might seem monstrous, but that is only because the wicked sees through the eyes of the monster that he himself is, and wishes to remain. Father will no more permit this person to remain a monster than He will Himself become a monster at any time.
Cindy,
The Lord disciplines those He loves:
The Greek word here for scourge is mastigoō and it means whip, flay, scourge. Scourging means “to flay or skin” meaning to whip so as to draw blood. Here’s is how the word is used in the NT:
Pilate did not “have harsh words with Jesus as a loving father” he had him beaten bloody. That was “discipline” as practiced in Rome at the time. It was also common practice in the synagogue:
The reality is, monstrous, bloody, beating was common practice then. It was likewise common for children to be whipped bloody at the time too. And according to Hebrews God scourges those He loves. And this is what we see in reality as people break their arms, necks, backs, and legs. It’s the loving discipline of Father.
God is a monster? 
Most of the time our spiritual interpretations are based on personal psychological influences and needs more than spiritual discernment. This is true for all of us. The interpretation itself becomes the therapist; just as New Age books guide the “perplexed soul”. What is crucial to our instruction to the Spirit of God is our own ability and desire to be instructed as God wants, not as we need. That is the crucible that makes the greatest minds succumb to blasphemous ideologies and superstitions.
We are often more needy than what our intelligence or inquiring mind portrays. Most of the time we cannot modify a persons views with reason or scripture. As behavioral psychologists know - rational counseling only works for very few. Life is funny that way. It’s always been that way. You can induce people to believe the most curious things. Socrates was poisoned to death because he tried to heal people of their superstitious addictions. That is just the way we are. The institutional “church” has become a refuge for all of the ancient Greeks and pagans who cling to their superstitions. We might desire to heal them; but really, they mostly do not even want to be healed. They want a spiritual house to enjoy their superstitions, and that is what the institutional churches has mostly come to offer them.
I do not think that persistence and love is always the answer. Love and persistence did not cure Judas Iscariot. People are what they are. The church today disguises what a person really desires. If the church today demanded repentance, for instance, as the 1st century church did, then we would surely sort out the true believer from the tourist. This discernment and wisdom has been lost to the church because the institutional church wants financial sacrifice, not obedience. For God…, it is the opposite. God wants our obedience. Few are willing to really be obedient. Most still sacrifice and believe that their church attendance has “saved” them.
Ideas about God being a monster are distractions from the real issues, IMO. We are called to repent! Until we do, we will never see God as he really is. Most churches turn a blind-eye to repentance, and I believe God acts the same way toward them. God can be a monster to the ingenuous, I guess. It is all in the eyes of the beholder. God doesn’t mind that they picture Him that way. So really, God is a monster to some, if perceptions count.
Here’s a list of crimes people were stoned to death for in the OT:
cursing parents
idolatry
blasphemy
unlawful divorce
prostitution
bearing false witness in a capital case
These were some of the times when God was monstrous.