The story of Uzzah and the Ark of the Covenant is found in 2 Samuel 6:1-7 and 1 Chronicles 13:9-12. As the ark was being transported, the oxen pulling the cart stumbled, and a Levite named Uzzah took hold of the ark. God’s anger burned against Uzzah and He struck him down and he died.
It’s important to understand the historical reality behind this idea of “corrective punishment.” Augustine advocated beating people, even killing them in the name of “corrective punishment.” He referred to this as “medicinal” punishment which was done “out of love.” That logic lead the way to the Inquisition and the Catholic and Protestant practice of torturing people in horrific ways as well as burning them at the stake, again as a way to “purge” their souls. This is the very real results of people believing in the truth of “corrective punishment.”
WOW… God is a monster!
Michael… given your ‘poof-texting’ “God was monstrous” hermeneutic of wrath “trumps” love, and given that this for you is most important, how does “imitate God” work/manifest itself personally in your life in terms of reflecting the wrathful God you worship and serve?
Davo,
There are ways I’m to be like God and ways I’m not. I cannot be like God in everyway. I trust Him in His sovereignty and follow His revealed will. My job is to trust Him, clean house, and help others. I didn’t say His wrath trumps love but that holiness trumps love. His love is a Holy love. It’s no mere human love. Vengeance belongs to God.
You are right… “Vengeance belongs to God” and fortunately in the divine plan His vengeful wrath was expunged fully in Christ where he Jesus drew all eternal “judgment” to himself (the correct reading of Jn 12:31-32) becoming, tasting and defeating sin for all. From the cross forward we live in a NEW paradigm…
Davo,
That’s true for those who are in Christ. There is no more punishment or condemnation for us. God still disciplines us though. It is another form of His mercy.
Which equates now to all humanity in that God views His world through His Son.
It’s for those who have faith in Him as Lord and Savior.
Those who have faith in Him as Lord and Savior are they that testify to the rest of His wondrous grace that covers all. God is the Saviour of all kinds of men, even the kind that believe… that’s fully inclusive Michael. The ONLY difference between the two is one is aware of this and thus thankful for this reality. Ignorance of reality does NOT negate reality.
davo,
I don’t think those who have never heard go to hell. If they are believing in God as they understand and are trying then I think they go to purgatory and are cleansed.
I think universalism per se has erred greatly by buying into the selfsame dark lie of ‘Dante’s Inferno’ sold to the world by Traditionalism.
The “Gehenna” Jesus prophesied of in the gospels spoke to the forth coming conflagrations of Ad70, NOT some supposed post mortem calamity; his concerns were very much to do with THIS LIFE, and in particular theirs then, i.e., Jesus was THEIR prophet and Messiah.
davo,
That is very interesting and I have been looking into Preterism because it makes the most sense out of the Bible. I’m still studying it and I may go that rout.
I’m a "pantelist" which is an inclusive prêterist. Most prêterists are infernalists and consider my position as nothing but disdainful universalism. While pantelism agrees whole-heartedly with the ultimate conclusion that all are restored to God, HOW this has occurred varies significantly from the path of universalism in that pantelism assumes its inclusiveness via an eschatological approach to scripture not philosophical… by philosophical I simply mean the basic argument of “how could a good and loving God damn…” etc.
Thanks davo. I’m going to look into this right now.
davo,
It makes a lot of sense to me that the Lake of Fire was for the times of 70 A.D. It would have completely destroyed all who were thrown into it. Maybe all that is left when we die is to be in the presence of God. Those who believe and have faith and do their best in this life go to be with God. The others simply stay in the grave. In this way every knee will bow and God reconciles all to Himself in the future when Christ returns. The New heavens and earth started in 70 A.D. It hasn’t reached it’s final consummation yet though. I know that differs from your view though.
Hi Cole
Let’s get this nice and sparkling clear: God is not a monster. Not “at times”. Not ever.
If your ‘God’ is a monster then he is not the Christian God. Here is the online dictionary definition of ‘a monster’ (noun):
- a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature
- thing of extraordinary or daunting size
- congenitally malformed or mutant animal or plant
Which of these definitions are you ascribing to your “holy, holy, holy” God?
And just to reiterate what Paidion has already said, the Bible says that “God is love”. It never says “God is holiness”; rather it says He is holy. The former is a noun definition of His essential nature. All God’s other adjectival attributes must be viewed in the light of this defining attribute.
Mate, if you really believe God is a monster, why do you bother with Him at all?
Cheers
Johnny