The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Grace — Forgiveness — Faith — Repentance

It sounds like Christianity meets Krishnamurti, from the Theosophical Society. Nothing is needed, nothing needs to be believed; everything is perfect - in the present moment. :crazy_face:

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Maybe it’s our individual understandings of what we think humanity has been saved from, that becomes the stumbling block.

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That has been the problem all along. :+1:

edit: actually it is ONE of the problems. The others are bodily resurrection, repentance, the second Coming, judgment etc.

On your list of 4 others there Dave in response to Ben’s post above I’m thinking his saved from might possibly only be in regards judgement, but not the other 3 — unless you have some other ideas??

That is interesting, as I don’t believe anyone is ‘brought’ into obedience, in fact there are multiple examples in each of our lives of people that have for whatever reason decided or continued to live outside of what the christian doctrine considers ‘proper’ and they are quite happy. To be honest, quite prosperous.

Go Figure.

That is not going to sit well with some, but understand, opening new doors and understandings as to what God is and what he is doing is quite cool. If we can get past the fundamentalist ideas.

I say the same thing. When I try to introduce folks here, to my tribulation theory (whether the Devil, science run AMOK, or both) of Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). :crazy_face:

The apostle Matthew was quite clear in relating the angel’s message to Joseph, the husband of Jesus’ mother Mary as to what it was from which Jesus would save His people:

Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.
But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” (Matthew 1: 18-21)

He will save His people from their sins—not from the consequences of their sins, not from the judgment of their sins, but from the sins themselves. To be saved from sin is tantamount to being saved from sinning. Being saved from sinning is a life-long process that begins when we submit to the authority of Jesus in our lives. But that process will some day be completed. As Paul wrote:

I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)

Again, Paul wrote that salvation is a training process:

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)

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I have no qualms with that presentation.
The only point I would add, is that the wages of sin is death. Therefore one needs saving from the jaws of death before that good work can be completed. Which to my understanding is a must, seeing I don’t believe in the immortality of the soul or a self existing spirit after physical death. Hence the need of a resurrection back to life.

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YES! Our great hope is in the resurrection— that is, the resurrection of the righteous.
Paul affirmed before Felix that he had this hope in God—that there would be a resurrection of all people, both the righteous and the unrighteous. He doesn’t say in this context what the result of righteousness is or the result of unrighteousness, although he does so elsewhere.

Nor can they prove [the things] to you concerning which they are now accusing me. But I do confess this to you, that according to the Way (which they call a sect), so I worship the God of our fathers, believing all things [that are] in accordance with the law and that are written in the prophets, having a hope in God which these [men] also themselves await: [that] there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. (Acts 24: 13-15 LEB)

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