This question has been touched on in a number of recent threads. But I figured it deserved its own thread.
So, what did Jesus ‘know’ during his time on earth as a man? Was his knowledge limited to what he learnt from his family and teachers, from his studies, and from his own life experiences? Did he have special revelation from God? And crucially, did he know he was the Son of God?
What say you all?
J
My brain hurts 
I think I’d start here:
“And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers…And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.” - Luke 2:46-47, 52
Seems to me Jesus had an education of some kind. What does it mean that Jesus increased in wisdom?
I think that everything Jesus knew and understood, he had to come at length to understand and know— just as we. So when he tells the Jews in John 5 how the scriptures in which they are seeking eternal life actually testify of him(Jesus, in whom they should’v been seeking eternal life instead); I think it had to occur to Jesus at some time before while listening to the scriptures that the words spoke of him. And he had to grow in his understanding of his father’s will and purposes for him, and also learn to recognize and trust his father’s direction and teaching— from faith to faith.
Grace and peace to you.
I’m pretty much with Jeremiah on this.
First of all, Jesus was fully human while on earth. He wasn’t a God/man. He “emptied Himself” of all of his divine attributes (Heb 1:3) and retained only His identity as the Son of God.
I would say that Jesus learned gradually like everyone else, but he had an edge on other people in that His close relationship to His Father resulted in the Father revealing many things to Him. Jesus did know He was the Son of God; He said so. (John 10:36). But He didn’t emphasize that. He emphasized that He was the son of man, fully human. He got hungry and thirsty just like anyone else. All the miracles which are ascribed to Him were done THROUGH Him by the Father, just as the Father created the universe through His Son. Jesus said that He did NOTHING on His own authority (John 8:28). He also said, “The Father who dwells within me does the works.” (John 14:10).
There were some things that God didn’t reveal to Jesus. For example, He didn’t know when He would come again, after His death and resurrection. (Matt. 24:36). I don’t know “how much” He knew, but He sometimes knew things beyond what other people knew or could know. For examples:
“He knew what was in man” (John 2:25)
“He knew their thoughts” (Luke 6:8)
“He knew who was to deliver him over” (John 13:11)
"He knew that they had handed Him over because of envy. (Matt 27:18)
However, I don’t think the real question is how much He knew, but how did He know these things?
In my opinion, He knew these things because His Father, who is omnicient, revealed them to Him.
Yeah I think you’ve nailed it, Paidion.
Could you enlarge a little on this part of your post?:
He “emptied Himself” of all of his divine attributes (Heb 1:3) and retained only His identity as the Son of God.
Or maybe point me in the direction of something you’ve read along these lines?
Thanks
“and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.”
Matthew 4:11
“Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.”
Luke 22:43
“For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over you, to keep you…”
**Luke 4:10,11; Psalm 91:11,12 **
I’m generally with Paidion here, but wonder if he’s arguing against the doctrine of the hypostatic union or if this is the way he sees the ‘two natures’ interacting?
I think Jesus had ordinary human knowledge with divine revelation at times informing Him of things no ordinary human could know (as Paidion listed). I’ll add one more to the list, His knowledge of the destruction of Jerusalem. “And Jesus said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down.”
If He was asked to explain quantum physics or what the Dow Jones Industrial Average would be on 6 Feb, 1989, He wouldn’t know unless revealed to Him by the Father. (Through His divine nature?) I would say, however, that He would always have the ‘right’ answer to any moral question. Is this just because of his intimate relationship with the Father and submitting His will to that of the Father or did He retain a divine moral sense/intuition in His divine nature and access that? Now I’ve got it all muddled in my head… 
Just a minor point here. Apparently Jesus had figured out that He was the Son of God by the time he had that incident in the temple as a boy, because His answer to Mary was, “Didn’t you know I had to be about my Father’s business?” As Joseph was a tradesman and not connected to any business of the temple, it seems pretty likely Jesus was talking about His Father in heaven.
But I do agree that Jesus learned the things He knew on earth, and the supernatural knowledge He did have, I think He received the same way any of us might receive supernatural knowledge --through the Holy Spirit, from the Father. He is our example, so I don’t think it would have worked for Him to have things we (His followers) can’t also have. He did have the Spirit without measure. Do we? Can we? I wonder about that. Could it be that we’re only limited by our state of spiritual maturity? I just don’t know . . . .
That is one amazing picture Steve!
Hi Cole,
I was immediately drawn to the image too. It highlights the majesty and mystery which surrounds us in Christ.
I have wondered this same thing… what limits us from the same experiences that Paul and the apostles experienced in Christ? I have met many people who have told me that they are apostles, and that they can do exactly what the apostles had done ; but I have never met anyone with the same mystical encounter with God. Gregory Thaumaturgus is said to have experienced miracles like the apostles; and Origen is said to have been the closest to Paul in his spiritual teachings; but I have yet to hear of anyone walking on water, or flying, as is said of Peter. According to Wayne Grudem, the time of Moses, and the time of Jesus, and the “time of the end” are the three periods of exceptional miraculous manifestations. Maybe we are living among some of the great apostolic men and women now? Perhaps we will know in due time.
Hi all
Thanks for your thoughts on this deeply perplexing subject - to my mind, one of the most profound mysteries in the whole of Christianity. The doctrine of the hypostatic union is, for me, unintelligible in the proper sense of that word. Not false, or meangingless - on the contrary, I believe it to be both true and essential, foundational. No, by unintelligible I mean that it is simply not possible for us - or me at least 
- to understand how Jesus can be both God, the Logos, the eternal son of the eternal Father, at the same time as being a real, live, 100% bona fide human being.
I offer these thoughts for you guys to throw rocks at:
On knowing whether he was the Son of God
Does Jesus saying things like “I must be about my Father’s business?” necessarily imply that he knew he was the Son of God? I think not. For me, these sayings indicate that he knew he had a very special ‘bond’ with the Father in Heaven, who is, in a sense, everyone’s father ('Our Father, who art in Heaven …). He was close to the Father in a way no other human being has ever been. He understood this. But I don’t think he knew he was the Logos, the Divine word made flesh.
If Jesus knew he was the Son of God, the Logos, then he would have known he was immortal, hence why would he have suffered such anguish in the Garden of Gethsemane? Make no mistake, the Jesus who was portrayed there was a man literally shaking with fear at the thought of his impending death. Also, why did he cry out 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" on the cross if he knew he was the Son of God, and was hence eternally ‘joined’ to his Father?
For me, Jesus facing the uncertainty of death, and experiencing real alienation from his Father, is an essential function of the Incarnation, an essential sharing in our human experience - because he shows us the way we all have to go one day. If Jesus knew *for sure *all along that he was going to be resurrected (rather than believing it on faith from his Father), then the whole thing’s a bit of a con in my book, theological sleight-of-hand. The passion, the empathy with suffering humanity - they become meaningless if Jesus knew he was the Son of God.
I am a trinitarian, but to me it makes no sense, based on the Biblical evidence, to say that Jesus was too.
Jesus’ ‘earthly’ knowledge was limited
We are told that Jesus was an exceptional scholar of the Hebrew Scriptures. My belief is that he knew only what it was possible for an educated person of his time to know. Although I do believe he received special insights from his Father, so do all believers, to a greater or lesser extent. As Steve says, he knew nothing of quantum physics or iPhones. He couldn’t ‘see the future’, unless given special revelation from the Father - as was the case with many other prophets.
When Jesus asked the Disciples “who touched me?” in the episode with the woman with the bleeding, surely he really didn’t know who it was? He knew something had happened - power had gone out of him - but not to whom.
**Jesus was not Superman **
Robert Farrar Capon is very good on this. He talks about how everything Jesus does on earth, he does as an ordinary human being, acting in complete harmony with the Spirit of God in him. Before his resurrection, he had no ‘super powers’. He healed people and performed miracles in the power of the Spirit. The amazing implication is that we ought to be able to do the same, if we are sufficiently enthused with the Spirit. And indeed, I’m sure some people have been, and continue to be. (Sadly not me 
.)
Cheers
Johnny
Now I could agree with you completely, my friend, but I feel that to Be My Own Man and to Show What I Know and How Deep is My Understanding , I should find a way to throw a rock.
Alas, I cannot; you’ve put the case basically in terms I would have, were I able. Well Done, I say!!
I have known a few people, gifted by the Holy Spirit in some remarkable ways, and they were uncanny. For a simple illustration: I was based in the Phillipines back in the 70’s, and attended what was basically a home church, with a number of guys I served with as well. The wife of the house had a reputation for great insight.
One evening, a few of us were sitting around in her house, throwing a good–bye party for one of my buddies who was heading back Stateside. We all stood up and had a prayer for him. (this was a Pentecostal group). I was really struggling in those days to understand how the Spirit can ‘speak’ to us and that sort of thing, and as we prayed I had a very strong inner impression that I should walk across the room and lay my hand on his forehead and pray for him. I did not do that, I had no idea where the thought came from, and didn’t understand what good it would do etc etc. I heard a snort of disgust from off to my right, and there was the lady of the house, walking toward me and shaking her head, and she grabbed my hand and walked me over to my friend and laid my hand on his forehead and gave me a look like “How stupid are you?? Can’t you even hear the small voice of God”. So I started praying and all turned out well.
Jesus, I think, would not have hesitated to obey what His Father was asking him to do. Through experience and obedience He would know the Father’s voice, and would be obedient in working miracles, in showing love, in teaching, and in obeying to the death.
edit: I just remembered something else this lady told me. She said: “Dave, I’d be afraid to walk across the room without the Holy Ghost.” She lived CLOSE to her Source.
Yeah man, I’m with you as well.
May grace and peace be with us.
Thanks for the feedback, guys.
Dave, great to hear your stories of folk in whom the Spirit is strong. Sherman has some similarly convincing stories.
Something you said earlier, Jeremiah, just struck me. If Jesus had to learn how to discern and trust his Father’s voice - which I believe he did - do you think there were ever times when he ‘got it wrong’ as it were, misunderstood a lesson, some teaching, a spiritual direction?
Cheers
Johnny
I thought that very question might come up when I first responded. I think no. Along the lines of what George MacDonald described as Jesus being “always close to the heart of his father” (well, paraphrased anyway )is where I think the answer could start. Not incorrect at some time, but at some time incomplete, sure. If so then Jesus would have mastered each “line and precept” so to speak before another being built upon the first. Maybe he first learned the discipline required to control his will to not venture outside of what he did completely understand. And like Paul said, God won’t test us above what we are able, and will with the temptation provide a way of escape. Does this temptation always have to be the burning “oh man, oh no, oh no” ones? I think the same escape to clarity applies to the ones that we’re not really fearful of, but still conscience of a lack of control over. Do you see where I’m going with that, or no?
Good night all.
I like the way you put that, Jeremiah. Given that the classical definition of sin is “to miss the mark”, and I 100% subscribe to the doctrine that Jesus lived a perfect and sinless life, I don’t see him ever mistaking his Father’s will. I think you’re right about him ‘feeling’ his way, as it were, making sure of each step before progressing to the next.
And of course, like any human child he had to learn and grow, both emotionally and morally as well as physically and intellectually - at least I believe he did. I wonder whether the very young boy Jesus was ever ‘naughty’ in the way very young children so often are - and whether or not this means that certain types of ‘childish naughtiness’ are not actually sin? After all, it makes no sense to say that somebody who is unaware of right and wrong, as a very young child must be, can be doing something ‘wrong’.
It’s a silly analogy, but we call our young cat ‘naughty’ when she jumps up on the mantelpiece and knocks all the ornaments off. But she isn’t really, is she? She is incapable of being either good or bad - she just does what her instincts lead her to do at any given time. Behaviour which accords with how we’d like her to behave we call ‘good’, the opposite ‘bad’ - but that’s just us projecting our morality onto her. She’s never bad, she’s just a cat .
Cheers
Johnny
Hi all,
Just saw this today:randalrauser.com/2014/01/why-jesus-almost-certainly-had-some-errant-theological-beliefs/ making a good argument that Jesus almost certainly had some false theological beliefs. It’s very short and not really blasphemous. 
See what you think
Hi Steve
Interesting article, and no, not blasphemous at all . I would certainly agree with Rauser that we shouldn’t believe anything of Jesus which would “undermine his humanity” - because if he is not fully human, the Incarnation is a sham, in my opinion.
But I don’t see that Rauser is saying anything new here. As I said earlier, I’ve always thought that Jesus, being a first century Jew, knew only what it was possible for a first century Jew to know. And if the best accepted wisdom at the time was that the sun was a flat disk, for example, then Jesus would have believed that erroneous belief. Rauser’s contention that believing something about God is a theological belief, hence Jesus held wrong theological beliefs is - while technically true, perhaps - somewhat strained in this context. It’s just a bit of not very important philosophical sleight-of-hand.
What matters to me - and I think Jeremiah too - is that Jesus never got it wrong about his Father’s will. Which is not the same thing as saying that he held wrong beliefs about God, or what God knows.
Cheers
Johnny