The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper


#2164

No, you don’t understand Don. A persons ability to be safe, is a fundamental right in the United States and the understanding that a firearm can be the difference between security and being a victim of crime is the difference. You may not want a gun, you may never want to use a firearm, you may think that a country would be better not having guns, but the fact is that guns are such a huge part of the US society, for myself, am glad for the ability to keep myself and family safe if the occasion arises.


#2165

That’s true, and the fruit of it is a much higher murder rate than other high income countries.


#2166

So Qaz, what is YOUR solution? Take guns away from citizens, so only criminals have them? You gotta have more than that.
Should the rich and elite be allowed to have armed guards?
If you’re in a theater and someone opens up with a gun, wouldn’t you be happy for there to be a GOOD guy with a gun to stop the slaughter?
Your position is completely untenable. Noone anti-gun here has given a realistic answer, just complaints and la-la land armchair sophistry.


#2167

I didn’t say that I don’t want a gun. In fact I own three rifles. They are used for hunting and for protection against bears. But I KNOW I will never turn the muzzle of any one of them against a human being.

The early Christians, when attacked did NOT lash out in kind. They returned good for evil as Jesus instructed, even if it meant death for them. And thousands of them died as a result. But they bore witness for Christ in doing so. For them, it was better to die than to ignore the teachings of their Lord. They loved Him more than they did their own lives.


#2168

Absolute rubbish Dave… I think you might be the one a rockin’ in your armchair on your porch in la-la land. Think back to the last mass shooting at one of your theatres… where were all your so-called gun-totin’ “good guys” preventing that slaughter?? It just doesn’t wash!


#2169

Says who?


#2170

That is a mighty bold statement you make mR Don, to link ownership of firearms with some how shaming folks… Christian or others in to believing somehow the bible tells us to not defend ourselves. You are a leftist socialist communist.


#2171

The problem is that you are not considering is that we all ready have the plague, so you can’t take the Paidions position and pretend it ain’t so, or you must go with the realization that, at least in the US we have guns… And deal with it accordingly.


#2172

Says statistics showing a 7x higher murder rate. You’d have to have your head pretty deep in the sand to pretend there’s no relation between mass proliferation of objects designed to kill and murder.


#2173

Sorry qaz, you’re not to get away so easy this time. Let me see some real figures by some real institutions, and after, I’ll do the same. Just to be clear, how dare you say that proper legal ownership of firearms is at all contributing to crime on any level at all.


#2174

I’ve shared my solution several times: a buyback at above market value and licensing for all guns and require gun owners to provide evidence that they’re going to hunt or participate in marksmanship competitions.

Making gun ownership less convenient means making it less convenient for would be murderers.

You’re hypothetical is misguided. If there was strict gun control, it’d be much less likely there would be a murderer there in the first place. You’re hypothetical creates a false dilemma.


#2175

“Leftist Socialist Communists” are not pacifists. Many of them not only defend themselves but initiate aggression against others.

It is well known that Anabaptist Christians such as Hutterites and traditional Mennonites will not defend themselves against aggressors. Why? Because they receive the teachings of Jesus, and act on them.


#2176

Indeed… I don’t think any sane person actually pretends your gun culture isn’t of plague proportions; there’s no denying the evidence!


#2177

Good. I appreciate your position. When I drive through a dangerous place, and have a firearm, I feel that God has not only allowed me but has instilled in my being that I need to be vigilant and take care of my loved ones.

You on your behalf have said I will go into this situation knowing that God is on my side and will protect me.

Good for you and if it works for you than power to you.

Don’t Judge the second amendment, it is a very potent weapon against the left leaning idea of no firearms.


#2178

Is this an Americanism, i.e., that “no firearms” is leftist… which you tie directly to socialism/communism etc?


#2179

The point is that since there are so many guns… We may need guns to protect ourselves. It is not A great solution, but a place I personally can live with. You can throw stones but until you are here, you may want to refrain from judgment. Just a thought.


#2180

We Americans indeed see an abundance of guns as a huge part of our society and identity, and those who most find their security in them insist that this makes us safer, even though all the data shows that in similar nations willing to have more reasonable limits, one is much less likely to be killed or shot to death. Go figure!


#2181

It’s not a case of throwing stones Chad… I was agreeing 100% with your own plague sentiment.


#2182

That was point, dummy. The good guys did not have their guns. Gads you are so blind at times.


#2183

Well you follow closely behind davo, don’t you? You keep throwing out bad reasoning, over and over.