What everybody is revolting against is the capitalism of Trump where the rich and wealthy are treated differently than everybody else. But what we are embracing is the opposite terrible socialism. What we need is free enterprise where the laws treat everybody equally with equal opportunity with investment etc, etc. Free enterprise economy is what makes nations great. Not Capitalism or socialism.
Free enterprise is brilliantly described, in this book:
We actually have a very good economy so this so called “revolt” is a hatred of Republicans going back to Nixon. Now the media is 24/7 and their business model is hate Trump/get ratings/more profit, so it’s non stop. It would be exactly the same in a free enterprise economy because the hatred is 99% emotional and akin to a religion and mostly media driven.
The economy is only doing well because of free enterprise. It would do much better without Trumps Capitalism. Time will tell.
hollytree has still argued that most people (and I’d include nations praised as ‘socialist’) desire a version of a “free enterprise economy.” Responses that repeat the mantra that such opponents’ views only come from hatred, religious emotion, media, Lefitism, or the Socialism that erases free enterprise feels a bit ad hominem, rather than (more interestingly) evaluating the merits of competing systems.
WELL SAID, OLIVER!
The BBC today, had an interesting article…regarding the electoral process in North Korea.
This zombie sums up, what’s needed by world leaders - including the USA!
My response is from listening to the words of Democratic Socialists when they give responses to questions about how to pay for their proposed programs like free medicare,free college, guaranteed jobs etc . I hear various responses from Democratic Socialists like the Treasury will issue more debt and the Federal Reserve will buy this newly issued Treasury debt. This will cause inflation followed by Hyper-Inflation as many countries have learned but the average person does not know much about economics, but they do understand the word “free.” This kind of response is typical and is emotional.
Where did i say all opposition to Trump is leftist? What i said is they (the left) use him as a Satan type figure to gin up their followers into a religious fervor. You say you are conservative but some of your specific positions like “open borders” don’t sound conservative?
One man’s fact-based opinion:
Glenn Reynolds nails it: quote - "And as far as I can tell, although Never-Trumpers talk a lot about morality and principles, their actual beef seems to be a combination of aesthetic dislike of Trump’s messaging style, and resentment that he’s not hiring them, and never will hire them. I suppose a lot of people confuse their own social standing and economic prospects with morality, but color me unpersuaded.
Perhaps in 2016 you could imagine that Trump would be such an awful President that you had a moral duty to oppose him. But in 2019, it’s obvious that that’s not the case. In fact, he’s pretty darn successful. Instead of gay concentration camps, he’s trying to end discrimination against gays worldwide. Instead of being a warmonger he’s now ending wars — and getting grief about it from Never-Trumpers. The Russia-collusion thing was always twaddle, but nobody is even pretending otherwise anymore. And Trump’s background and personal life certainly don’t stand out as compared to many other occupants of the Oval Office whom the establishment deemed entirely acceptable. -end quote
Steve, you now appear to complain that emotional socialism is advocating Medicare and state subsidized education. My impression under that definition is that most Americans have long supported ‘socialism.’
Complain?? Do you buy things you can’t come close to affording? Free medicare cost 30 trillion, free college cost trillions. Most Americans may very well support “free stuff” except it’s not really free, it’s a matter of who and how it gets paid for. But there are countries that already have free medicare,college,guaranteed jobs etc like Cuba,Venezuela, Bolivia,North Korea etc so is the trade off for “free stuff” worth it? We already have examples and there is a price to soaking the rich. Inevitably shortages of things people need to live because there is no incentive to produce things if the government grabs your assets and profits under the banner of wealth distribution.
I think the important thing is not what socialism says it ‘is’, since there are many flavors of it - a wiki check will show you that is true.
I’d like to see a discussion not based on the word ‘socialism’ but on what self-proclaimed socialists are running on in this country, what are their programs, how to pay.
And with no rhetoric - 'Well we are for fairness, and social justice, and Green-ness and clean air and fair reparations blah blah blah - I say ‘blah’ because we ALL want fairness and justice, but not with the baggage that most socialists lay on those terms.
So - what do the current crop of sorta-like socialists want to actually DO? I might be in favor of some of that, but if all I hear is ‘we want fairness and social justice’ I will turn the channel. Tell me what your fairness and your social justice MEANS without using those terms, and how to implement it - and how to pay for it. And why it will make a difference to the givers and to those that benefit. I’ll listen.
Until Justin Trudeau put his foot in his mouth, I was wholly captivated by US politics. I still follow it, however, and will await with interest to read the pre-election manifesto of each of the too-many-to-be-counted Democratic candidates. They do have to tell American voters precisely what they want to achieve if elected and how their programs will be funded - don’t they?
I think not. I think much of the American public has been systematically dumbed down, and responds in a Pavlovian manner to empty slogans and misleading disingenuous claptrap words such as ‘social justice’ ‘fairness’ ‘racist’ ‘bigot’ ‘homophobe’ ‘privileged’ ‘depolorables’ ‘Green’ ‘intersectional’ ‘cisgendered’ ‘lbgtqq’ and a host of others. If a political party wants to use those words, we should hold them accountable (and HOW are we going to do that?) for explaining exactly what the h-e-double hockeysticks they mean.
The games both sides play - deplorable.
Of course. I don’t recall arguing that Medicare and education costs no money.
If you are interested in economics and their relationship to political structures, imo you can do no better than Thomas Sowell. I turn to him when I want a no-bs answer to something like, say, the claims of certain socialists measured against actual reality. Of course there is always the minutely possible chance that ‘our’ socialists - Occasional Cortex, Bernie Sanders - would get it ‘right’. But what ‘getting it right’ means to them is confronted and shown wanting by Sowell.
A few excerpts:
“Even the best things come to an end,” wrote Thomas Sowell in a December, 2016, column headlined “Farewell.” At the age of 86, the great economist had decided to stop writing his column and “spend less time following politics and more time on my photography.” Since then, Sowell has been rather quiet, but current political trends have prompted him to re-emerge.
“Socialism is a wonderful sounding idea,” “It’s only as a reality that it’s disastrous.” A former Marxist, Sowell began to see the difference between reality and rhetoric. “When you see people starving in Venezuela and fleeing in the neighboring countries and realize that this is a country that once had the world’s largest oil reserves, you realize that that’ve ruined a really good prospect with ideas that sounded good but didn’t turn out well.”
As it happens, the best economist is also black, and his name is Thomas Sowell. He dropped out of high school and served as a photographer in the Marines during the Korean War. He was the first in his family to attend college and earned a BA from Harvard, a master’s from Columbia and a PhD from the University of Chicago.
The Hoover Institution scholar has probed the world of ideas in books such as Basic Economics, Economic Facts and Fallacies , and Wealth, Poverty and Politics . He is also the author of The Economics and Politics of Race, Ethnic America , Affirmative Action Around the World , and the 1985 Marxism: Philosophy and Economics . Sowell’s conservative economics and criticism of affirmative action have drawn vicious attacks from the left.
Columnist Carl Rowan compared Sowell to Vidkun Quisling and NAACP general counsel Thomas Atkins called him one of the “house niggers” on the plantation. Lani Guinier, a Clinton nominee for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, even questioned Sowell’s blackness. The economist, who was raised in Harlem, does not generally respond in kind, but he was justified to say “I don’t need some half-white woman from Martha’s Vineyard telling me about being black.” Sowell also kept on writing thoughtful, well-researched books such as the 2013 Intellectuals and Race , more relevant than ever with leftists smearing all rivals as racists.
In the view of the current “race industry,” whites who outperform blacks are simply unjust beneficiaries of past discrimination. Likewise, Asians who outperform blacks and Hispanics are beneficiaries of “privilege.” Sowell shows how diversity dogma generally ignores discrimination against Asians and Jews, high achievers despite centuries of persecution in many countries.
At the same time, the intellectuals of the left “pay no price for being wrong, no matter how wrong, or with what catastrophic consequences for millions of other people.” That dynamic was on display in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, where socialist Bernie Sanders chose to celebrate his honeymoon, and the Soviet client states in Eastern Europe and Cuba, an all-white Stalinist dictatorship. The American left championed them all, and they now keep the faith as Venezuela’s socialist regime starves and oppresses the people, who flee by the millions.
Sowell, who turns 89 this year, knows that socialism is guaranteed to wreck America. He is troubled by the fathomless ignorance of “rising star” Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her fellow Democrat socialists. The great economist may be back in the fight, like Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca , but unlike Victor Laszlo, Sowell is not sure we will win this time.
With willful ignorance, intolerance and bad ideas on the rise, Sowell has “a great fear that, in the long run, we may not make it.” On the other hand, as he said in his 2016 “Farewell” article, “let us hope that we can learn something from the past to make for a better present and future.”
To that end, everybody should get to know Thomas Sowell, whose books on economics, race and affirmative action, should be part of high-school and college curricula across the nation. If we are going to have a better present and future, as Sowell explained on Fox Business, everybody will have to “test ideas against facts.”
If you have questions. I refer you to his books. Here are a few random quotes of his:
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.
Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a
history of replacing what worked with what sounded good.
The next time some academics tell you how important diversity is, ask how many Republicans there are in their sociology department.
If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism.
Freedom has cost too much blood and agony to be relinquished at the cheap price of rhetoric.
The most basic question is not what is best, but who shall decide what is best.
The welfare state is not really about the welfare of the masses. It is about the egos of the elites.
There are only two ways of telling the complete truth - anonymously and posthumously.