Actually I missed that as well. ‘Unpatriotic’? 'Lying? - no, I think your party and especially the Left part of that party are both those things and egregiously so - but not you personally. You’ve earned everyone’s respect including mine for your thoughtfulness and insight (excepting, for me, your unwillingness to be fair as to the Prez - maybe that’s just me)
I find this enlightening. I would suggest that Bob self indentifies as a leftist, which is why he attributes the attacks on the left to him personally. I think this is important to understand, and can provide enlightenment for even Bob himself. If Bob was in the middle, he would not take or associate attacks on the left as attacks against him. Indeed, I don’t feel anyone has attacked me when they speak against the right or the left. I find them both pretty much abysmal…
I’ll gladly point out unfairness on both sides, but I can’t really root for either side, as there is so much wrong.
I don’t feel there is a political party that represents the middle. Republicans are too far right and Democrats are too far left. Even more concerning is that both parties appear to be going in opposite directions. If this continues, a third party is bound to crop up.
Yep. I’m certainly no republican. And apparently there is no middle, politically.
If the stakes were not so high - and for me that means the survival of America as America - maybe extreme measures and tempers would not be necessary.
Both extremes are abysmal.
Now they are giving cheerleaders a hard time, according to the BBC…for doing their patriotic duty.
Interesting that you should mention that.
In Canada, we have the Conservative Party (right), the New Democratic Party (left) and the Liberal Party (middle). Our election is taking place on October 21.
(Totally agree on a missing “middle.”) Your main insight is close. My perception rests on frustration after Thousands of interactions since EU has seemed to become most passionately a place to post political sentiments (especially from Breitbart & Fox contributors)!
I may hold some ‘liberal’ ideas & policies, but I do not identity as a Leftist. Yet I sense that so often when I share a critique of a policy or even something Trump has promoted (that perhaps others have seen as grand), instead of answering my argument, I may get much general ad hominem disappointment in my total lack of common sense, etc, and be told that interaction requires first the credibility of providing more ample praise of Trump’s profound leadership.
But most of all, the retorts that I see are attacks (and links to attacks) on what appears the ultimate deserver of animus, violent unpatriotic lying Leftists! And typically others then joyfully add their own enthusiastic insults to denigrate the “Left.” Thus it’s difficult to avoid assuming the respondent is implying that what’s relevant about the view you (Bob) expressed is to identify you with the ultimate Satanic stronghold, folk on the Left! As if you can’t question those in power without being a Leftist. Apparently refuting my view with some kind of ugly guilt by association (so that I’m tempted to say if that is the label you use to dismiss my views, I might as well accept it, and just ask for dialogue with my supposedly ‘leftist’ argument).
I.e. if the point is not to identify or dismiss me as a Leftist, then instead of answering with a diatribe against perverted Leftists, I keep suggesting engage the presented substance. Give us something to compare notes on that isn’t essentially ad hominem.
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Accusations of ad hominem attacks momentarily aside: surely it could be argued that a Christian’s theological positions are manifested in his political positions, and therefore that politics is fundamentally relevant to theology?
(Also, I think for all of us, Ephesians 6:12 bears repeating:
For our struggle is not against FLESH AND BLOOD, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.)
That is what they are. You are not, I understand that. The ‘dishonest’ remark which was not a remark about character at all, had to do with a - it seems to me - complete unwillingness to be fair. I don’t care about Trump as a person, but I do recognize that he has done things to keep his promises to, at least, us ‘deplorables’. (who smell bad, and shop at Walmart, and cling to God guns and religion). And he seems to care about America. In this day and age of low and even lower expectations, that’s the best I hope for. The Left - to the left of many Dems - is deplorable. Much of the right - to the far right of many Republicans - is deplorable as well.
Trump is attacked, not because he tweets, but because neither party has control of him. The Left is still moaning about the election, and yapping like a pack of chihuahuas about impeachment, telling every lie they can; their media just parrots what they are told; no filthy story no matter how unfounded is left unpublished; and noone here seems to care. It’s all about Trump tweets, how islamaphobic and racist and warmongering and bigoted that one man is - and he is none of those things. But they are not called out for the lies.
The Far Lefty lies and media lies are the thing that get to me. They are obvious, and they are not challenged.
I’ve had to promise my wife that I will now give up pleading for fairness, or actually writing about politics on the forum. She says things about ‘mood swings’ and ‘anger’ and overall health; and she’s always right. So I will try to follow through on that promise. I’ve tried before, but now I’m being watched by my Higher Power, God bless her.
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I think we go thru phases with this political venting because we all really know it’s unhealthy to be to passionate about this. Of course today the latest “leftist” pandering move is calling for Kavanaugh’s impeachment based on a bogus NY Times report. Not surprisingly it doesn’t matter to “the left” that the story is bogus because the story makes them feel good like all warm and fuzzy and nothing “trumps” how it makes you feel, certainly not the truth.
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Amen Hermano! This comment is not directed against Bob or any individual , but I do think Satan does deceive people in mass and I think we are seeing it in real time. Sorry but I can’t find any other logical explanation for what I see and hear out there.
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My wife Alida was like that. I wish I had listened more closely than I did. I think she was right about 100 times as often as I was. 100 times is probably an understatement.
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Thanks. Some may see being “fair” as basic to desirable “character.” So perhaps you can see how for someone whose interpretations differed, discussing their read by always highlighting those who “tell every lie they can,” and repeatedly accusing them personally of also being “dishonest” and completely unwilling to be fair,"* might be heard by a recipient as actually implying something bottomline about their “character,” (and foreclosing much openness to exploring their interpretation on the merits).
Forgive me, but I’ll also repeat that your constant insistence that “no one here” seems to care about the egregious extremes of the Left" seems unfair (not for me, but) for many buddies here who have regularly echoed a sense that the far Left is particularly extreme, outrageously unfair, and dangerous.
I fear your need to hear others reinforce your angry disposition toward those you see as politically nuts and recklessly dishonest about the facts will never get enough validation to be satisfied. I suspect it’s not only your bright wife who’s been able to recognize evident and painfully unhealthy mood swings when these heartfelt topics arise and someone is not in sync with your anger. Thus I’m proud of you for wrestling with how to handle the burdens you feel in this arena in the healthiest way possible. Maybe we’re closer elsewhere, but I find you regularly achieve that in the realm of theological faith and identity.
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Well, I decided to fish in a lake - owned by Trump. It definitely has it’s perks!
Yes. There’s a “yuge” difference between a goldfish and a gold fish.
Dave this dishonesty goes way back to at least 1932 when in the winter of 1932 Stalin starved 8 million Ukranians and the NY Times had a reporter in Moscow who knew about it firsthand yet they (NY Times) covered it up because of their ideology. It’s more known now because of Twitter,FB and other instant media communications. NY Times just continues with their bogus Kavanaugh story with apparently no price to pay. They will do it again in a second if it advances their ideology (religion).
So in your opinion, will the Democratic party some how fill the resivior needed to give you a decent quality of life and be able to save the earth 
Pensions are a thing of the past. No one gets them anymore. Even though Social Security isn’t a large amount of money, there are tons of government programs that assist. My uncle retired at 65 a few years ago, and his apartment is very, very nice and is pro-rated by the government. He pays $170 a month to rent out a one bedroom apartment. He gets roughly $300 in food stamps, which should easily cover a single person. So, sure, he only collects a mere $900 a month or so after taxes, but after you take into account the other benefits, he isn’t starving. After you take into account supplemental insurance and his apartment payment, he still has $500 in or so in discretionary spending.
There was a very recent Times, article, I believe that mentioned how misleading it is when American politicians cite our impoverished wages, because it doesn’t take into account a many, many other assistance programs that exist for people in that group.
I’ll tell you one thing, I pull a nice wage, but I don’t have $500 of discretionary spending and let me tell you I am frugal, and so is my wife. People underestimate how much food stamps provide for supplemental income for a family of 4, not to mention other discounts for services when you fall below a certain AGI. Unfortunately, I make too much to qualify, and while that is a blessing, it is also in some ways, a curse. There are situations where making more doesn’t always mean you actually have more, it just means you can drop assistance.
Republicans are rich. They don’t need it. Some Democrats are rich also. Fortunately, there’s a group called AARP, of which I am a part. And they have a big lobbying group.
Democrats favor almost any tax increase to fund almost anything except the military but Social Security is easy to fund. Wages are taxed for Social Security up to a max of about 120K but if you remove the cap then SS is funded indefinitely. I think Trump mentioned this once but has not followed up but at some point this will be considered.
Not no one. (both my son-in-laws work for companies with pension programs)
Your main point that the gov’t provides many helps to enable low income people to make it is quite true of this great country. Though I did observe as a pastor that subsidized rent (HUD’S Section 8 program) had only a handful of rentals to match the many low income folk who qualified for them.