The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Republicans deliberately lie about the modern democratic socialism of Sanders. It’s not the same as socialism or communism. It’s capitalist:

Bernie Sanders is the Junior Senator from Vermont and a self-described democratic socialist. Despite this, his policy platform does not seek to replace capitalism and private ownership of the economy with a socialist economic system, and he is not formally a part of any of the small Socialist parties in America and appears on the ballot as an independent.

https://socialism.fandom.com/wiki/Bernie_Sanders?fbclid=IwAR3jXVRobPdulj_Ka-LpHV0MleSCiwYrFWYV7oERKVer9VTx44ENcKEClm4

We need a song or two, to emphasize this point. :crazy_face:


Are the Democrats fighting among themselves? :crazy_face:

Bernie Sanders democratic socialism is capitalist. He doesn’t hate the rich like socialism and communism. Roger waters of Pink Floyd is a socialist. You can see it in the album “Animals”. In the song “sheep” he mocks Christ and calls God a homosexual. From Wikipedia on Roger Waters of Pink Floyd’s “Animals” We see the hateful socialism of Waters.

“Pigs (Three Different Ones)” is a song from Pink Floyd’s 1977 album Animals. In the album’s three parts, “Dogs”, “Pigs” and “Sheep”, pigs represent the people whom Roger Waters considers to be at the top of the social ladder, the ones with wealth and power; they also manipulate the rest of society and encourage them to be viciously competitive and cut-throat, so the pigs can remain powerful. Although it was not made available for commercial purchase, promotional copies were released in Brazil, albeit in an edited form of only four minutes and five seconds in length

Wrong link:

Roger Waters of Pink Floyd is a hateful socialist. Bernie Sanders’ American Democratic Socialism is Capitalist and doesn’t seek to replace Capitalism

The Matthew effect in Reality doesn’t always work so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. A relative Matthew effect could work and has worked in our country where the hierarchy in reality stays and the inequality in the hierarchy increase while everyone moves up the scale. Indeed it has worked this way in the history of our Capitalist economy. The rich improved at a faster rate than the poor but both improved or got wealthier. This is because there is more at work within reality than just the Matthew Effect.

Well I think the point is that even if Trump said he would link aid to Ukraine with investigating Biden , you don’t get impeached for thinking or saying something but not actually doing it. The “Left” acts like the “Thought Police” & wants punishment for thoughts if they are not state approved thoughts.

I hope you are right but I have never heard Bernie say anything other then bashing “Wall Street” which I presume to be business or capitalism, since he never actually defined “Wall Street.”

You’re actually going to say paranoid thigs after a look at the facts. This is Social Darwinist hatred of God’s chosen. Just like Hitler. Hitler even said this (the protestants’ Calvinism ethic) was Christianity.

This subject by a sociologist (not Republican) is also documented in the book called “The Matthew Effect” written in 2010. It’s on the Matthew principle not Bernie Sanders but the subject is on the Matthew Effect or Matthew Principle. I’m not saying Bernie is wrong on everything just on this principle of reality. The Matthew effect in Reality doesn’t always work so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. A relative Matthew effect could work and has worked in our country as documented in the book and here in this article where the hierarchy in reality stays and the inequality in the hierarchy increase while everyone moves up the scale. Indeed it has worked this way in the history of our Capitalist economy. The rich improved at a faster rate than the poor but both improved or got wealthier. This is because there is more at work within reality than just the Matthew Effect.

“In the coming debates over the nation’s future, a return to natural law is the most secure way to fight against the legal chaos that has destroyed the rule of law. We must explore natural law notions of self-defense, private property, and even national sovereignty. This law will direct us to God, who made both us and the natural law.” - John Horvat
" Among our decaying institutions, law has now entered into a new phase that creates dilemmas for peaceful citizens. Conservatives have long revered the rule of law as a source of order. They have opposed the radical left that desires to overthrow this order, who therefore have no qualms about breaking the law to achieve that end.

Throughout our nation’s history, law has been anchored in reasonable and ancient foundations that date back centuries before our independence. This has provided the basis for debate and consensus needed for an ordered society.

However, issues like abortion, gun control, and transgender rights have now broken these foundations and imposed new alien rules. Judicial activism has stretched the boundaries of this debate. Law has come to reflect those who interpret it. Decisions like Roe v. Wade have stained and disgraced the judiciary by taking away legal protection to the most vulnerable members of society—the unborn.

Law that seemed so stable has now descended into chaos." - Horvat

A note concerning ‘natural law’ vs ‘positive law’:
"When the founders of America set out to form a better type of government they had a clear historical perspective of the type of government they did not want. They knew that monarchies and arbitrary power were the enemies of freedom. Using this knowledge they created a republican form of government that by design was based on “natural law” rather than positive law.

So what is natural law? Natural law begins with the premise that all of our rights come from God or nature and are inherent to our being. Positive law, on the other hand, believes that our rights are granted by the government, society or other men and therefore can be taken back by them as well. Positive law is the basis for the concept of social justice which attempts to subvert natural law and create artificial equality through regulations or force. This goes against the very essence of human nature. In other words, laws created by men are always secondary to natural law which emanates from human nature itself." https://davegj13.wordpress.com/2010/06/12/natural-law-vs-positive-law/

What’s new in the BBC today? :crazy_face:

Abortion?

Here’s one of the many verses in the Bible where God takes the life of an infant:

1 Samuel 15:2-3 ESV

Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

If God has morally sufficient and justifiable reasons then He does nothing wrong in taking the life of an infant. Granted the norm isn’t to take the life of a baby but there are exceptions under utterly unique circumstances. Just as the norm is to love our enemies but the Bible makes exceptions. There’s a Time and Season for everything. As it tells us in Ecclesiastes:

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;

a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;

a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

This whole nonsense that we depend on God and not the government doesn’t take into the account the fact that God gives some of His authority to the governing officials. This is what Paul means when he writes: “There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God…(This authority is) God’s servant for your good…he does not bear the sword in vein. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath” (Romans 13:1-4).

Since Trump just gave 3.9 billion to programs helping the mentally ill and homeless I can’t say he’s a Social Darwinist anymore. It was his followers (Trumpsters like Dave B. and Steve) who are the social Darwinists. Like Hitler they think that this is the Christian God or the God of nature. But Christ calls us to transcend nature and rise above our animal instincts. Christ was for the weak outcasts of society. He came for the sick and disabled and elderly. He showed compassion on the needy. Christianity’s core is centered around this. As C.S. Lewis in “Mere Christianity” tells us, the Bible tells everyone to work. One reason for this is so we can have something to help those in need.

A very interesting observation. It’s NOT Trump that is at fault here. But it’s ANY “radical” followers, whether they are “social Darwin”, “Trump Zombies”, etc.

As an aside, I would vote for Trump again. As there are no viable Democratic contenders - except one. And if he rises to the top, of the Democratic or Independent machine - he has my vote (AKA Mike Bloomberg). Now back to the Trump followers. :crazy_face:

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Initially, social democracy referred to socialism but later came to mean a political philosophy favoring reform over revolution as a way to achieve socialism. After the second world war, most social democratic parties abandoned the goal of socialism, and the label “social democracy” came to mean support for a welfare state in a capitalist economy. Marshall described the modern welfare state as a distinctive combination of democracy, welfare, and capitalism.

https://socialism.fandom.com/wiki/Social_Democracy?fbclid=IwAR1rGBuV_IEeCSrlEd-9phbNsRsrLtqV2FJR16teSeaRdZoK461HYkUymmA

So we can distinguish true news from “fake news”…here’s another example of true news, from weekly World News :

Bernie’s explanation of “socialism” is, in fact, closer to what political philosophers refer to as “social democracy.” This is a capitalist system, since the means of production are still privately owned, where the state heavily regulates the economy and has an active welfare system in place to correct for the worst problems inherent to capitalism like inequality, cyclic instability, or the profit motive encouraging people to do things against the public interest.

Anybody that’s looked into it will see that Bernie Sanders Democratic Socialism is modern Social democracy. This is capitalist. If Sanders was trying to change the country to a traditional socialist country he wouldn’t be able to run for president. It’s not allowed. Republicans are fear mongers. To all the Social Darwinists who don’t want to have compassion on the disabled elderly suffering

GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT!!!

No i’m not if Sanders is as you say but as i said his rhetoric leaves out anything positive about the private sector. Also i’m not a Trumpster , just a person who wants to retain capitalism.

I’ll repat what I just said: