If you have a close friend, in the Muslim circuit. Itās easier to enter that world. 
Because so many Americans still live mentally in a time when intolerance was considered the greatest evil, they have difficulty understanding that an indiscriminate tolerance can father just as many sins. -WK
Well yeah, but this ALL comes back to cause and effectā¦ the lies of 911 Howard, Blair and Bush fabricated to further their own political ends in terms of the fear-mongering and manipulation they peddle to justify the military action taken ultimately RESULTED IN this flood of people out of their homelands to borders beyond their own ā hence the Muslim migration; history show war does that.
I always thought Bush bent over backwards to repeatedly call Islam a religion of peace and what resulted in the flood of muslim immigrants was Bashar Assad the Syrian dictator who as a muslim Shite has been trying to wipe out the Sunni majority in Syria igniting a flood of immigration into Europe. As others saw that you can get into Europe it fueled further immigration from Africa. The Europeans never learned how to secure their borders and they now will lose their cultures over a generation or two.
Dave, I donāt think the rest of the world has āidiotic imm1igration policies.ā Many countries have compassion on the multitudes that can no longer live in their own countries because of persecution or of unjust laws that make it impossible for them to live a normal life in those countries. But it just so happens that some unscrupulous persons take advantage of these compassionate countries and immigrate to them in order to wreak havoc. Countries are morally right to take the risk of their being such unsavoury characters among the multitudes who need a decent, democratic country in which to live.
Let me give you a personal example. After the North Vietnamese (Communists) overtook South Vietnam, they persecuted educated people. Many of those people escaped in boats or ships to other countries. My own family and the families of two of my nephews, formed āThe Refugee Assistance Groupā and sponsored a Vietnamese man and his wife, and three sons. We arranged to buy a trailer and set it up on a part of my property (160 acres).
We picked them up in Kenora, and thought that if we took them to a Chinese restaurant, they might get food similar to what they were used to eating. But they hardly touched the food, because they thought it would be an economic hardship for us. Once I found the husband, Van (pronounced "Vaang) , in a clearing near the trailer with four stakes in the ground on which a cloth had been stretched, and on which potatoes had been cut up in the shape of French fries, and were placed on the cloth. I asked the man what he was doing. He replied, āIām drying these French fries in the sun.ā I said, āWhy not just put them in a frying pan with oil and cook them?ā His answer: āSave electricity.ā
They had brought some tubes toothpaste with them. His sons held the tubes straight up and lightly moved the heads of their toothbrushes across the opening to the tubes so as not to make it last by using as little as possible.
Van, the husband had been an electro-chemical engineer in Viet Nam,and his wife had been a pharmacist. I tried to get Van a job at the paper mill in Fort Frances, but they wouldnāt hire him. So he managed to get a job with a local farmer, but it was very hard on him. Because of his slight frame and structure, he came home very tired every evening.
Their religion was Confucian. I asked him how a Confucian practises his religion. He said, āWe look at pictures of our ancestors, and feel thankful that they have given us birth.ā
When he found out that we attend a Christian church, he wanted to come. On their journey to Vietnam, the family and other families who were on the boat with them, were robbed by a crew of Thailand pirates. A second group of pirates came on board later; there was nothing left to steal, so they gave the Vietnamese people some fish. However, they were angry at being robbed,and wouldnāt eat it. Later, they stopped at a large island country where they were told to get back into their boat and move on. They tried pushing it back into the water (not very hard) and said, āIt seems to be stuck.ā
āAll right!ā said the officials, āWe will make a border around this little area. Anyone who steps outside this border will be shot!ā After they started to get hungry, they went back to the boat and took out the fish (which was then in a stage of being unfit for consumption), cooked it up and ate it.
Later, a Catholic woman and her daughter discovered them, and brought them food and reading materials. This kind act resulted in Van having a positive view of Christianity. So when he found out were were attending a Christian church, he and his family were happy to attend it, too.
Their children attended the local school and were at the top of their class.
He said that what was done in the meetings made him feel good. I managed to get a Bible for him in the Chinese language (He was able to read that fluently). āYes,ā he said, "First I will read the Christianās Holy Book before I decide to become a Christian.
A day or so later, he said to me, "I have been reading the Christian Holy Book, and have a question. Whose son was Jesus anyway? Genealogy is very important to a Confucian, and so he had started to read the genealogy in Matthew 1.
Later, Vanās wife was getting letters from Vancouver, in which they were urged to move out there where there would be greater opportunity. Sometimes, I heard Van and his wife arguing in Vietnamese rather frequently. She wanted to move to Vancouver; he didnāt. But finally she convinced him. Then he told me, āI tried to get a job here, but I fail. We will be moving to Vancouver.ā I had loved the family so much, that I wept.
Thatās an excellent story, Don, thanks.
We keep coming back to this point, where Iām made to look like I have no compassion, and your side is all-loving. Ok thatās a caricature of both of us, but you get my point. And itās a false dichotomy.
So you donāt have any advice - noone seems to - except to point fingers at the USA and accuse of a lack of compassion. Strange - where is the compassion for those wives and kids mowed down in a movie theater, or children blown up at a concert, or raped in Muslim areas, of killed in 9/11?
Seriously - What about them? Is it more important to allow terrorists into the country - and we seem unable or unwilling to do that - than to protect our own citizens?
I agree with a compassionate stance. But we have to take care of our own as well.
What advice would you on the forum give?
Well, I tend to lean more to Daveās stance, with the understanding that you need to try to have compassion without putting your loved ones or every thing youāve worked for at risk of being ripped away. Donās story was fantastic, But the one thing about the story that intrigues me is that Don and company ādecidedā to help this one family. They were not compelled to do so. And how did the family respond? They were so humble and grateful that they wouldnāt even eat the Chinese dinner. The kids became model students and the folks lived what sounded like simple responsible lives. And I assume that the family was legal from a citizenship standpoint. NO ONE has a problem with that.
IāLL REPEAT No on has a problem with that as far as I am concerned. But Dave raises issues that are easy to sweep to the side until it arrives in your back yard so to speak. Forced or illegal entry is different than compassionate and legal citizenship.
My daughter just got married to a young man from England a few weeks back. His short term travel visa (not sure if I have all these terms right) was up and he had to go back across the pond to go back to work so he is there and she is here waiting to try to go there and for the authorities in England to decide if he can support her and if she is not a security threat. The red tape is incredible when you try to do it legally. I feel for them, not being able to be together.
I am a better safe than sorry type of guy, and my daughter seems to be being slowed down because of that mentalityā¦ So it is what it is. Just the crap of a couple of young folks falling in love living in different countries.
IāLL REPEAT No on has a problem with that as far as I am concerned. But Dave raises issues that are easy to sweep to the side until it arrives in your back yard so to speak. Forced or illegal entry is different than compassionate and legal citizenship.
Here is a news flash, Dave is right and here are other facts which are , where Islam goes violence follows. Not most muslims but to many and the overwhelmingly important distinction is that violence and conquest is the bedrock of Islam unlike any other religion. So itās not about how many muslims are violent or non violent itās that the religion itself is cancerous. The violence and conquest built into the Quran and Hadith is open ended and unending until Allah rules the world. That is the reality.
Worse than Vegas - and no guns.
Remember last year? No guns needed.
D. Greenburg:
If somebody really wants to kill a lot of peopleā¦ they have options.
A large truck plowed into a crowd of people in the southern French of city of Nice on Thursday night, killing at least 84 people and leaving 18 in critical condition as the heavy vehicle mowed over its victims along hundreds of feet, according to police and government officials.
The scene in Nice was one of devastation, with the heavy-duty white truck stalled amid the bloodshed on the street, its windows smashed and riddled with bullets, from police gunfire.
āI saw bodies flying like bowling pins along its route. Heard noises, cries that I will never forget,ā he wrote.
The Muslim terrorist attack killed 86 people and wounded 458. Thatās a worse toll than the Vegas attack.
And it only happened last year.
**But the media is eager to forget about Muslim terrorist attacks and very eager to have a ānational conversationā full of ācommon sense solutionsā for abolishing the Bill of Rights. Unlike the travel ban which was a common sense solution that most Americans support.
**
The gun control argument is all about how guns are an unprecedented weapon of terror. And if someone wants to kill a lot of people, he just has to use a gun.
Not really. As the Nice attack, the Manchester Arena attack, the Boston Marathon bombing and 9/11 (and Oklahoma City, for the token non-Muslim terror attack) demonstrate.
Guns are a means. As are trucks and bombs.
(emphases are mine - DB)
I just read the articles in todayās newsletters from patheos.com/ - both Catholic and Evangelical. And many are devoted to making sense, of the Los Vegas massicure. We are talking about a person, whoās a multi-millionaire. And thereās much we donāt know yet. IRIS, at least, I can understand. I understand their ideology. Naturally, I donāt agree with it. And Iām all for the good guys - owning guns. As long as they pass, the appropriate background checks.
ISIS I understand. Zombies I understand. But I donāt understand, folks like Stephen Paddock. Perhaps because not enough is known yet. Or yet released, because of the pending investigation.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/906822f718808bfc374ac57f67156180/tumblr_nz5e50DNRA1tg1e53o5_400.gif
Well this may be a bitter pill for any of you that hold the position of āno media biasā āyou cannot prove media biasā etc.
Project Veritas strikes again!!
Is this another right wing article 
Oh, know 
Left wing and right wing articles, will be what leads us - to the zombie apocalypse. Iām convinced of it. 
Itās more like - whatās that word again? - ah yes, FACTS. An interview with an important NYT staffer who did not know he was being filmed and recorded. TSK tsk. He spills the beans.
Maybe the beans donāt matter any more? Jonathan Gruber was filmed stating that the Obama Admin believed the American people were too stupid to understand what was being done to them with the ACA - thatās a Big Bean, but no hue and cry.
If you donāt read this, and later on claim, like so many have, that there is no āmediaā bias, I can refer back to this, at least. If the ZA has not happened. 
But I donāt know any zombie, that is currently a mathematician. But they are certainly waiting, for us to give the signal - for the zombie apocalypse to begin. Itās closer than we think.
I am surprised that no one has yet made reference to the dramatic events which have taken place in United States in the last two daysāevents that expose Mr. Trump for who he really is.
Even Fox News, to which Trump supporters claim is about the only News that is not āfakeā concerning Trump, has published an article entitled āTrumpās seagull management style makes mess of Senate.ā Early in the article āseagull managementā is defined as āThatās when somebody flies in, defecates on everything and then flies away.ā
Oh.
I think youād be surprised, Don. Even Fox News has more negative than positive press coverage for President Trump. There are a significant number of clearly left-leaning anchors/co-anchors and probably an equal number of right and left-leaning consultants. There are right-wingers as well, and then there are the straight-down-the-middle news people. Thus, a negative story by Fox News about President Trump isnāt actually much of an event. Just pointing this out.
Believe it or not, I spent a significant portion of the last couple days skimming this whole thread. Itās almost like listening to āThe Way We Were.ā The night of Donald Trumpās surprising victory seems so long, long agoāand yet not long at all. I remember. I was a mess, so afraid that Hillary Clinton would win (as ALL the news organizations predicted). I truly believe that a Clinton victory would have sealed the end to the Republic. Donald Trump is no knight in shining armor, but I thank God every day that he was the one we sent to the white house. He started out by divesting himself of control over his vast fortune, declined the presidential salary save the obligatory $1/year required as a minimum for most contracts. So did his family members working in the White House. So, if I remember correctly, have a number of his high-level staffers who had no need of the salary.
There was the āwire-tappingā scandal. As it turns out, DJT was right. Trump Tower was indeed surveiled. Not only that, but Obamaās administration surveiled a truly astonishing number of people who were in one way or another connected with DJT or his campaign. I believe there is now or soon will be an āINVESTIGATION,ā whatever that really means. Unmasking and leaking the identities and private conversations of US citizens (to their detriment) without the required legal permissions has occurred. This is a felony. Surprisingly it was not done by Republicans or for Republican gain. It was apparently the upstanding, virtuous, lily white Obama administrationās work.
Then of course it was a constant drumbeat of RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA. I watched it unfold. It started with unfounded allegations, was pushed forward by the infamous ādossierā that first saw the light of day at the hand of Senator John McCain. It was discredited almost instantly, with all agreeing the āinformationā contained within was nothing but spurious, scandalous, baseless, demonstrably false accusations. Nevertheless, this was the next step in the story being spun by the media. Iām seriousāit was built on a fabric of lies that EVERYONE (individually taken) KNEW were lies. (Donāt ask me for links, Qaz; this is just my recollection.) Despite all this, there it tottered and grewāa house of nearly transparent cards wavering in the breaths of air but standing. After a while it began to look like a towering fortress of āfacts.ā I continually shook my head in wonder. āBut there are no facts; thereās absolutely no evidence. In fact, thereās evidence AGAINST all thisā¦ā The MSM continued to tell their story, each time louder and more audacious and indeed more outrageous than the last. If you tell it enough times, people will begin to believe it. Well-known Marxist tactic, and it apparently is very popular with Democrats as well. Even President Jimmy Carter opined that the opposition of the press toward DJT was the worst he had ever witnessed. Wow! Someone forgot to give him the talking points, I guess.
While all this is going on, we have the smaller themes of Trumpās inauguration crowd size story (while he quietly sends forth the pipelines long held in check by President Obama, to the great ecological AND economic advantage of the nation), Trumpās āMuslim Travel Banā which, despite his imprecise language, was neither a ban nor directed particularly at Muslimsābut youāve all discussed this at great length, and to be fair, no one had a problem with it when Obama decreed a very similar policy directed toward the exact same dysfunctional countries, so that potential immigrants/visitors could be properly vettedā¦ Never mind. Activist judges usurping executive authority, the Supreme Courtās interim ārulingā in favor of the president. The ongoing saga of the not-quite-republican house and senate ārepublicansā and their shock at having to actually DO something beyond just being āthe party of ānoāā.
The growing threat (and realization) of Islamic terror in Europe and the British Isles, the rage of the left with seas of āwomenā wearing āpussy hatsā and screaming about what I never did figure out. They are (many of them) too young to have ever experienced an election in which they could vote and which they lost. It wasnāt supposed to happen that way! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! the primal screams raged against the brass heavens.
Antifa invaded college campuses, demanding the silencing of conservative voices, attacking a young woman with tear gas because of her MAGA hat, a crippled, aged veteran in a wheel chair, another old woman (pepper spray), carrying nail-studded clubs, threatening all who werenāt wearing Antifa black. They attacked BerkleyāBERKLEYātheir mother! I still donāt understand THAT one. Of all places the most friendly toward their cause of (I suppose) anarchy. A Muslim terrorist in France kills 80-some people at a Christmas market (how insensitive of them; they had it coming, Iām sure, attending a culturally offensive event like that) with a stolen truck. Terror spreads across Europe and blows up in a concert in Manchesterāattended mostly by young girls. Rapes, murders, fearā¦ Even here in the USA, there are smaller terrorist incidents. A man attacked people with a machete in a shopping mall in MinnesotaāMN! Thatās where we spent four months last summerāin Rochester while my husband underwent a bone marrow transplant. It seems very close to home. I now carry 100% of the time where not prohibited. So should you if itās legal to do so where you live. Iām not joking. Not to protect yourself necessarily, but certainly to protect others.
I have to say. Add in Iran and NOKO to this toxic mixture and I would certainly not want to be the president of the USA just now at this time. DJT has his hands full. I do think in the circumstances and considering he is still new to the job, he is performing admirably.
No he is not perfect. On the other hand, he merely bragged in the obnoxious and offensive way of some men when he thought he was having a private conversation. He later apologized really quite abjectly imo (has Bill ever done THAT?) and when asked directly, denied having actually DONE the thing he had bragged about to his male companion. Oh yes, heās been accused of plenty of things. Thatās the only one Iāve seen with any credibility. Iāve seen plenty (some mentioned above) that were obvious lies (if you were paying attention to anyone in addition to Meeka or whatever her name is, and her ilk.)
I think that Father has put this man here for āsuch a time as this.ā Instead of vilifying and hating and eagerly consuming every vile thing flung at him by those who hate him, perhaps we could (at least those of us in the USA) find it in our hearts to pray sincerely and often that God will work through him and even perhaps despite his own follies and faults, bring good through him to the people of this country (and of the world) who so badly need it. This world is in deep trouble. We donāt have time for fussing and fighting. I would love to see us all remember who our True King is, and petition the Father in His name as He taught us, to send the beautiful Spirit of Holiness to heal our land (you can think of this as all one person if that works better for youāGod does not mind, I am certain.)
During the last eight years (which I personally found very traumatic and frightening), I reminded myself constantly that I am not so much a citizen of this world as of the next and that Jesus is my True King. For those of you now who feel about DJT as I felt then about BHO, keep that in mind as a comfort and trust GOD, not man, to bring about a favorable result. Jesus Christ is Kingānothing can touch you except for your good and by His permission. Pray.
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You hit the nail - on the head. The left wonāt save you. The right wonāt save you. In the world of motorcycle gangs (which I have read and heard about), there is a term called hang-around. A person who āhangs aroundā - is not a prospect or member. But someone who āhangs aroundā. So I consider myself a hang around - with various spiritual groups. I fully believe that Red Road or Native American spirituality (see Red Road Spirituality,, had an unwritten covenant with God - before the event of Christ. And God still speaks to them - in visions.
Well, as a hang aroundā¦I learn a lot of spiritual things - can protect us.
The relics of saints, from the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions.
The blessings of saints, from the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Sufi and Eastern traditions
The Holy Eucharist - when properly preformed
Wearing blessed objects (I have a cross blessed by the Roman Catholic church, saints from the East, and the altars - of Native American lodges I participated in.
The ceremonies and sacred pipe prayers - of the Native Americans
Participation in healing meditations and ceremonies (like those of Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Native American, the Bruno Groening Circle of Friends, Japanese Johrei and Sukyo Mahikari).
The Holy Spirit
Etc.
Like tonight, a Lakota elder is speaking - at the Theosophical Society. The lectures are free and streamed at 7 PM CST. And later recorded on YouTube. The website is theosophical.org/programs/lectures. But this part in the into is interesting:
Well, we will only know the truth of this - at the end of time. But the intuitive part is very interesting.
Just a footnote. I believe God fully speaks - through the Gospel (either EO, RC or Protestant). And through the mainline Christian churches. But God also speaks - through other outlets (like some Iāve mentioned here). And God extents healing, protection and blessing - through these outlets.
And no matter what the world says - regarding Donald Trump. In my book, heās as every bit a solid leaderā¦As Rupus T. Firefly was for Freedonia - in Duck Soup (see youtu.be/m9Wh66FXZJQ, for example). 
I just hope the world wises up, before the zombie apocalypse happens. After watching AMCās Fear the Walking Dead and The Walking Dead, we really wouldnāt want to be around - if the TV version, is true to life. 
Is anyone suggesting that it will??? Republicans in the senate, after TRYING to get Trump to act reasonably and having found it impossible to do so, are either keeping quiet biting their nails, or else speaking up as several in the senate have done.
The dignified, rational man, Bob Corker, voted for Trump and did his best for himāto no avail. Finally, he resigned his position, but Trump falsely claims that he fired Corker. I invite you to listen to this Bob being interviewed (just before the senate lunch), who states the facts in a quiet manner.
Randy isnāt suggesting indirectly that lefties think the left will save us, Don. IMO, he IS something of a lefty, though he would probably disagree. Heās also an American citizen. He and I have our disagreements, but at least he has a personal stake in these matters. Non residents are free to weigh in of course, but it might be best to refrain from any appearance of scolding.
Bob Corker and Jeff Flake can give whatever reasons they like for choosing not to run for re-election. What the rest of us see is that they have scant chance of being chosen by the voters of their respective states (Tennessee, Arizona). Corker (among many other things) essentially told the president to mind his own business regarding tax reform. During the health care debate, the president stood back, promoting but not attempting to guide the legislators. He was bitterly criticized for not involving himself in what he sees as the job of the legislators. So this time, he is being more proactive. He is being bitterly criticized (often by the same people) for involving himself. It truly does not matter what he does; SOMEONE will use it to try to hang him.
Neither Corker nor Flake have been fans of the president (while nevertheless voting for most of his agenda items). They havenāt been shy about proclaiming their disapproval. Jeff Flake even wrote a negative book (which Iām given to understand was a real scorcher) about Trump while never having met or spoken to himābefore the election. Conventional opinion says that this anti-Trump sentiment is the reason these senatorsā popularity in their home states has waned so drastically.
I swearāI believe so many people just uncritically accept and believe anything they hear on the news that they agree withāthat pleases them. Fox shows complete uncensored interviews, complete (within reason) legislative speeches. They donāt ALWAYS play clips in context, but in most cases I have at one time or another seen the context. I have yet to catch them spinning by deceptive editing. I donāt absolutely trust them, but I feel that they, and perhaps some of the smaller internet media outlets are more honest than the legacy media.
Here is a link to the Harvard Study of media coverage of the Trump presidency: shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-donald-trumps-first-100-days/
Sorry for posting a linkābut I feel it is more honest to allow you access to the entire article. I will summarize briefly by news outlet the tone of the coverage. Many other parameters are covered in the linked article.
Domestic News Outlets
CNN: 93% negative
NBC 93% negative
CBS 91% negative
New York Times 87% negative
Washington Post 83% negative
Wall Street Journal 70% negative
Fox 52% negative
European News Outlets
ARD 98% negative
Financial Times 84% negative
BBC 74% negative
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