The Evangelical Universalist Forum

I asked Muslims about their Opinion about after life!

Evangelical Universalism
#1

I asked my Muslim friends and they told me this:

they believe for grave punishment they said after death ALL the people will go to hades (real meaning sheol that we name it, they call it [barzakh] a barren wasteland, an unseen world) and just for one night in our time, one day, the person who practices Law will be punished so lightly but the wicked more severe by angels, then after that awaiting resurrection, when i told them the punishment will be for ever or until resurrection, they started to laugh, they said you are making God a great torturer, his purpose was not to create us to torture us,

Thanks

#2

that’s wonderful :smiley:
i love the way they put that!

#3

I had heard there were universalist Muslims, Eric. I suppose that, like us, there are people of all persuasions in Islam regarding the afterlife. It’s delightful that you’ve met such reasonable people around you!

#4

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

#5

Oh well I might as well add my two penny worth here – since I did quite a lot of research on this last year. What you are saying is absolutely correct regarding the beliefs of some Muslims. It is certainly the belief of the Ahmaddiya Muslims -there are about a million worldwide and they have also completely renounced the jihad of the sword for the jihad of the pen (belief in the non eternity purgatorial nature of hell is reflected in their translation of the Quran). There aren’t many Ahmaddiya Muslims in the UK where I live – but there are a lot of them in America and they are well integrated citizens and tend to belong to the professional classes. I recall that one American Ahmaddiya Muslim said – ‘How can you possibly love a friend truly if you think they are destined to eternal damnation’.

Of course hard ECT is the preferred doctrine of Muslim Fundamentalists – but that’s to be expected and by their fruits you shall know them.

One theory about the UR strand of Islam is that it originates from the beliefs of the Church of the East which shaped much of early Islam when it was – according to the best modern histories – an ‘ecumenical’ community of believers drawn from Middle Eastern Jews, Arabian Ishmailites, and Nestorian Christians. Only later did the emphasis on submission creep in as it became a religion of conquest (the work is in its infancy and is controversial because it entails seeing the Quran as a historical document rather than one fallen from heaven).

I believe the first really notable example of a Muslim Universalist comes with the Sufi female mystic Rabia in the ninth century. The story is told that when she was an very old woman she wandered the streets late at night with a flaming torch and a bucket of water. When asked what she was doing she replied that with the water she intended to put out the fires of hell, and with the fire to burn down paradise so that people could love God freely in fearless unconditional loving, as God loves them.

Peace to all

Dick :slight_smile:

#6

Very cool! I think Rabia was my kind of sista! :wink:

#7

I was just looking out of my window and I was bedazzled by a burst of fire in the near distance; and then I heard determined footsteps and the sloshing of water and then a voice with a sing song southern lilt saying – ‘’I’ve come to burn down Paradise and put out the fires of hell…’’ And I was thinking ‘Is that our Cindy creating a fuss? How very nice - do come in for a cup of tea’ - but then I realised it is very hot and the mind plays tricks on chap in this weather :laughing:

#8

:laughing:

#9

:laughing: Dick, you can be very funny when you put your mind to it. :wink:

#10

My dad’s side of the family is Muslim and I’m always faced with the pressure from my dad to be Muslim; he does not like at all that I’m a Christian; so with me being interested in UR, I’m trying to find a stronger argument to remain a Christian and a stronger argument as to why it’s better to be a Christian, if possible in this life (I suppose to avoid the Lake of Fire/2nd Death). I would like insight if possible, thank you. :slight_smile:

#11

why he don’t want you to be a Christian? I’m curious!

Because Islam came after Christianity?

#12

no, because he is Muslim himself. I’m not ready to be a witness to him at this point, but someday if I want to try to help him understand why it is necessary to accept Jesus as Savior of mankind, it makes it harder for me to explain the necessity in a way :frowning: I feel silly saying this but oh well…

#13

I know, I live among them, most of them are using the law of man, similar to Jews, Most of them are saying Islam is the Last religion, and more updated,

But In fact Christianity is not a religion, it is the Mystery about God, I’m feeling that they are spiritually Lost, they should use the Law of Love. They can’t call God, Father or abba, but most of The Christians can, they seeing God as Creator, but Christians as Father.

In Bible God sacrificed his Son for us and now in Quran Muslims believe in this: quran.com/4/157
that angel Gabriel said Jesus Didn’t crucified :exclamation:

God cannot be a Liar, that his words cannot be contradict with each other!
I don’t know what happened to Muhammad that time?! I think Muhammad say this verse Metaphorical, yes Jesus is Alive again, but Muslims got the idea wrong that he didn’t crucified, I think Muhammad was talking about Jesus resurrection, thats why he said they didn’t kill him, it needs interpretation.
but we are blameless because we didn’t see the past, God will judge us fairly, he just want us to do not sin :slight_smile:
he wants us to complete the Mission, blessed and Holy are those who don’t see him, and believe in him,
and never hardening their hearts.

Don’t worry preaching to my family is difficult too, even they are spiritually lost Chirstians!

#14

Thanks for this. Very interesting indeed…

If the mercy of God (and the ultimate reconciliation of all) can become common ground with Islam, wouldn’t that be something to smile about. This generous view would be far closer to the God I seek than some Christian concepts I could mention… :open_mouth:

#15

Seems the Ahmadiyya Muslims (aka Ahmadis or Ahmadi Muslims) are like Muslims (& Mormons) are to Christians, in that they believe in a “prophet” (see Ahmadiyya) that came later on… unfortunately I suspect that means most Muslims probably aren’t going to convert to the Ahmaddiya variety anytime soon :frowning:

#16

you should see him in person! life and soul of the party!

#17

How can they say Jesus didn’t crucified? :exclamation:
what? just like Christian Gnosticism

#18

Och Alex – I only used the example of the Amaddiya because there happen to be quite a few in America (and I thought Eric was American until I paid attention). And there are only a million worldwide and they are very badly persecuted in Pakistan.
But the Amaddiya are not the only Muslim Universalists – perhaps you don’t have any Muslim Universalists in Australia. If anyone is interested in Muslim Universalism and its varieties the key text is –
‘Islam and the fate of others’ by Mohammad Hassan Kahlil

The thing I find interesting in this book is that it shows that some Muslims are interested in some of the very same issues that Christian Universalists are regarding ECT which reveals our common humanity across our big disagreements to me. I think - as Eric says - that many Muslims (but not all apparently) do believe in a form of Docetic Gnosticism when it comes to the crucifixion for example, and there are lots of other things I disagree with the different sects of Islam about. I’m a Christian - and its a question of how to engage with non-Christians lovingly and fairly rather than being a call for pluralism)

And the other very excellent book by evangelical Christians I read after last summer’s intemperance on this site (with Drew’s recommendation) was –

'Between Naivety and Hostility – Uncovering the best Christian Reponses to Islam on Britain’ edited by Steve Bell. Obviously it is about the UK scene – but we have our fair share of Islamists here believe me. However, from an evangelical perspective it deals with all of the big issues including conversion from Islam to Christianity (with case studies) and does so in a compassionate level headed way. Drew recommend the book to me and I cannot praise it highly enough. Of course it won’t please everyone – but I think it is ground breaking in its loving kind scholarship.

And I guess when Islam does come up here I always fear the rage of counter jihadists who come on this site. Two authors who were mentioned quite a lot on site last summer (who I’d never heard of before last summer) were actually banned from entering the UK a couple of months ago (well they protested liberty - but one of them at least actually has been fomenting violence and hatred, and both are proscribed by the American Jewish Anti-Defamation League for running hate sites). And for this reason I always fear that discussion of Islam is not always good for this site - none of us can speak as experts here (me included and including all who spoke last year and the authorities cited).

‘Laying down the sword’ by Philip Jenkins is excellent food for thought for both Christians and Muslims.

Love

Dick

#19

:confused: sorry wasn’t intending to hurt. I was a excited by your post so contacted a friend who is pretty much is a full time missionary to Muslims to see if he had talked to any in Australia. He said they were rare & really hammered by other Muslims because they had another prophet.

A good example too - I like hearing about Muslim Universalists.

Thanks for the info.

Definitely an interesting thing to discover.

I agree.

Sounds very interesting.

#20

Love you Alex :smiley: You know why I’m thinking eeeeek here :laughing: