Thanks. Martin Zender made an analogy of a farmer plowing a field and watching the horizon instead of the furrows being made, the effect being a strait furrow. Problem is when I look at Jesus I often see condemnation.
I can speculate on a few reasons you might see condemnation, looking at Jesus – but maybe I’d be wrong. So, why do you see condemnation when you look at Jesus? Can you describe that a little more thoroughly?
Not good? If you didn’t love truth, you wouldn’t be so honest about your weaknesses! If you didn’t love faithfulness, you wouldn’t be distressed by your own faithlessness.
“I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it… For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!”
Christ will rescue you from the evil shadow-self that hangs round your neck like an albatross, foetid and rotten. One day soon you will be free of that dead thing and gaze upon it with loathing.
"From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
God will look after you. Your job now is to go and look after someone else. Buy a bum a burger.
That was beautiful, Allen. I wasn’t even discouraged, and you encouraged me! 
Thanks!
Thank you for this, Ruth. Maybe I will have to hear this again and again (and again).
Hello there from China !!
instead of writing Greetings ! which would not be so appropriate within this thread...
Hey guy if you are feeling as you are ... changing the scenery or environment or setting might help
besides if you want to have a friendly enthusiastic passionate guy show you around the block
or two ... then come over here and enjoy the food, the scenery, and the people ...
If ya came over here via Tour .... which really super sucks by the way ...
of If you come over here without anyone who knows how to get around then it is most likely boring
attested to by the looks of other foreigners or expats on Monday morning ... <img src="/uploads/default/original/1X/15680453330e74f929b585a237613f0bdf61e069.gif" width="15" height="17" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"/>
I have been to HK ( Hong Kong) a zillion times before but I had to stay put there for 2 weeks
during the process of getting a new Visa since the previous easy ones were all axed... :wink:
So what to do ? HK is basically boring boring boring to me.... in the past ...
90% of my trips there were for Visa runs .. and for the huge "people mountain people sea" mass
of people traveling there constantly ... ( the chinese phrase means " tons of people " wall to wall people )
so yeah .. so what .. travel to HK for shopping .. or for those seeking entertainment
Ocean Park and Disneyland ...
Thus I had to really "do" something or have "cabin fever" up to my forehead via being crammed
into one of those tiny Hotel rooms ... how tiny?
Yes sir, we have mighty fine rooms here .. mighty fine .. clean, safe :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: and
the PR voice drones on ....
so I go with the person to take a look at this Hotel room ... with jaded feelings to be sure ..
get to the room ... oops wrong key ... lol... really building confidence in this situation ...
then he tries another door... opens it ... so I take two normal steps and hit the edge of the
twin size bed ... sheeeeeesh ... then I ask him where is the bathroom... uh ..
look to your right... there it is ... smaller than you can imagine .. :wink: with only a hole in the floor
oh gee... squat toilets are quite popular in many places ... :wink: :wink:
Wunderful ... sometimes I will find a tiny room but much more eye pleasing but then again ...
price is different ... and never ever let anyone talk you into staying in ChungKing Mansion
down on Nathan road... :astonished: :open_mouth: :smiling_imp:
for it is the essential "garbage can " of HK... recently there are some newer better designed
Hostels located in it .. but my morbid memories of Christmas past cannot be pushed aside...
So what did I do ? stuck in HK ... thinking it would be 3 weeks ...
I decided to put "passion" into action instead of "talk"
I have never been to any of the Islands located in HK area ...
I had never walked along any of the beaches or campsites and so on in HK area...
So I made everyone feel I was some kind of weird nitwit toking a suitcase around with me
while I got on Ferries to travel to other Islands... and then trudge along various hiking trails
getting weird stares from the others who were wearing tank tops.. t-shirts .. .shorts etc...
And I took lots of photos ...
I would take the Ferry from Central to Tsim Sha Shui many times ..
although there is MTR ( the Metro Subway system in HK is really good )
Just for the ride ... and find a way to the back of the Ferry and enjoy the breeze
of the wind ... and observe as many things as I could....
Walking along the hiking trails for hours in a hot Sunny day was exhausting enough
especially while toking along a suitcase... because ...
no way I was going to behave "normal" and leave my stuff back in the Hostel ...
trying to keep "honest" people from getting temptations to suddenly help make
some of my things disappear...
I live almost 2 hours by GZ Metro ( guangzhou MTR )
to avoid living in the "concrete jungle"
If you want I can invite you to visit me ... (unknown stranger )
or if you prefer I can take you around to find what tickles your fancy too ...
The Spa where I sometimes stay is cheaper than a Hotel room .. and is really comfortable
relaxing and I can pig out on fruit .. drinks ( from coke to fruit juice to tea and so on )
there are many recliners individuals lay on ... with little TVs
The beaches are not Hawaii style but suitable enough ..
and if you like Nature as I do .. then there are many parks to visit ...
Welcome ... you are cordially invited to visit me and my close friends...
if you wish to risk it .. then you can sleep over in my 3 bedroom apartment
which is located in a quiet, safe community with lots of mango trees, fruit trees,
palm trees and there are many parks reachable by bicycle...
Emotive feelings ... daily stress from a myriad of factors ... contribute to one's
psychological socio- environment ...
Whether you wish to swim upstream or downstream in the river of your current quest...
You are most certainly welcome here ...
You can get warm bear hugs with friendly smiles.. from me ..
charming sparkling flashing eyes from university gals and women here too ...
Chinese are usually very hospitable and friendly ...
depending upon whether a foreigner is willing to appreciate what is available here...
Yesterday for example, I rode my bike randomly along the road .. seeking to find various
places to take photos or just experience whatever I could find ..
waved at a guy eating dinner .. he was really happy so he waved back and invited me
to join him and his relatives at their wooden table...
off the road.. to a brick made housing environment .. lots of weeds and forest in
the background... the people did not look or appear to be upper middle class..
but very friendly ... guang xi ... this is the secret for developing relationships ...
come to find out .. :laughing: one of the relatives wanted to show me his "new" car
more expensive or similar to a BMW and another Mercedes Benz parked next to it ...
You can get caught up in typical Consumeristic behavior and then feel ... well...
If you visit Churches you will have a myriad of reactions, responses and
mixed up feelings...
So if you really need a change of setting... Welcome here !
If you prefer to stay in HK ... then no problem .. I will take some days off
and show you where I went ...
by the way .. this ain't no ... hey I will do this for you ..
and then you might feel more persuaded to keep truckin along with trying
to get back into Christianity ... been there.. done that many a time..
I do the same for people here too... if they are willing to put some "passion"
into appreciating Life experience ....
guang xi is really important for Chinese ...
take care of yourself .. and find something to put some "passion" into doing something
Art... Music... Hobby .. I love to visit Museums...
Whatever you do ... keep walking and never mind the emotional roller coaster at times..
especially the "guilty " feeling part ....
more later if this is ok with you ....Hi Andre,
1 John 4:8 and the two great commandments kind of sums up my thoughts on your struggle.
1 John 4:8 Those who do not love, do not know God; because God is love.
What if our purpose here is to start to understand our Creator, to know our Creator and to follow Him.
Read 1 John 4:8 again… “because GOD IS LOVE”.
Think now of the two great commands:
- Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul. - you cannot love ANYONE or ANYTHING with even half of your heart, mind and soul if you do not KNOW who or what it is. What IS this first command? Why was it given. In my opinion, it was given to us for the sole purpose of PUSHING us to get to know our Creator. To seek out His true character: LOVE. God is LOVE.
God wants us to seek what Love is… He wants us to know Him. This command is not because God is an ego-maniac and demands love and worship. God doesn’t need anything. This command, I am convinced, is solely for our benefit. To know LOVE is to KNOW GOD. That is an amazing, amazing thing to ponder. To know LOVE is to KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE.
Love is what created us.
Now the second command:
- Love your neighbor as yourself.
That to me, sums up what following Christ is all about. Meditating on LOVE to get to know God, and taking that knowledge of God (LOVE!!) and helping others to understand that LOVE IS REAL. Spreading love around as best as you can, in your own unique situation. In your own unique and beautiful role in this world. YOU ARE ENOUGH. YOU ARE LOVED. YOU ARE EXACTLY WHAT GOD WANTS YOU TO BE. Think of those who “do NOT know love”… it is a call for help… a beacon flashing saying “I do not know God… help me…” Love is patient, kind, gentle, keeping no record of wrongs.
What exactly is christianity with all of it’s guilt and rules and laws… and do this and do that?
What is that? I don’t subscribe to that. At ALL.
Where there is love, there is no need for the law, for there is nothing evil to restrain.
Christ came to point the way to the Father. To show us the LOVE of the Father.
“Forgive them Father, they know not what they do…”
Please do not be so hard on yourself, friend. You are a beautiful child of God, as we all are. We’re all in this together. Focus on love, ponder LOVE. Meditate on LOVE.
It is the non-love in this world, the non-love inside of US that is on that road to destruction…
But the love within us is on the road that leads to life.
To me, this world, this life is a journey that we are all on.
A journey that will lead all of us back home.
We NEED to understand the contrast of love and non-love.
Again, we are all in this together and more connected to each other that we think.
We are ALL learning.
We’re all in this together.
Love conquers all.
Well, not sure if this helped at all… but I just wanted to express it.
Peace to you,
sparrow
Hi again Andre
Of course I realize and know that most people are not going to fly to Asia ... :wink:
My main point is Welcome ... should you ever wish to visit over here and do not wish
to be concerned with the price of Hotel accomodation or wondering what to do ...
My other main point is ... to do something with enthusiasm
my example was of my staying in HK ... and what I do here ... today I went to yet another park ..
When I was eating in the Muslim restaurant I was thinking of you ..
thinking that it would be very satisfying and cool to introduce you to my local friends...
I have met a lot of people who struggle with attempting to get involved with any Church
I have not been actively involved in any Church for quite some time now...
I just went along with my daily living ... until I decided from some intuitive sense
that I would like to see what is happening on the Church scene again...
I feel it is refreshing enough to me here in this forum which leads me onto
to do more reading, thinking and probably research ...
So whether you are on your way out .. or on your way in .. and going thru ..
You are Welcome ...
If we were living in the same State I would probably drive over to say hi ...
I used to struggle really deeply with "guilty" moods and the so called Western introspective Conscience
the main reason I do not follow Buddhism, Taoism, or Korean Church 4th dimension
or others is due to the depth that one might get involved in ...
on the popularized level ... Eastern mysticism along with others ...
is interesting ... but trying to get deeply involved takes a lot of deep introspective thinking and effort
Also I feel that developing and creating an environment of friendly fellowship with others
is more important than getting deeply involved with religious rites or different kinds of meditative
process ... which prompt people to "follow" yet another Master and become a disciple ...
So I hope you will be able to continue onwards ... leaving behind that which has become
such an bothersome annoying mood...
99% of all of my close personal friends along with those who are friends ..
are certainly not Church people at all... and I have no need or push to try to evangelize them...
simply because their concept of what it is to belong to a Church has too much baggage ...
most of the Chinese here feel it is bizarre for Westerners to keep yakking at them
that they are sinners ... going to Hell.. and will be BBQ'ed for eternity ...
the normal tradition view of what a 'sinner' is has very little meaning to Chinese
due to 1 ) saving their face 2 ) do not have the traditional Western introspective conscience
that is susceptible to "guilt ridden " morose feelings and moods...
now is not the era of Charles Finney nor Billy Sunday... nor CH Spurgeon or DL Moody ..
nor Jonathan Edwards ..
and the Prosperity Gospel or TV Preachers ... is rather inane in itself to me ... :wink:
So what is important to me .. is to find friendly relationships with others ..
leaving most -- almost all of the fair weather beer drinking buddies with themselves...
that is the point of my comments to you ...
Welcome here ... and try to find something you can do with enthusiasm ...
all the best ...just a side thing hothorsegz…
one of the species of tarantula i keep is a Chinese one called Chilobrachys sp “guanxiensis” (though i’ve seen it as sp “guanxi”)…i thought it was named for a region, but maybe not!
Andre, you should take him up on that! a vacation might be just what you need 
have to say i’d LOVE to go to China…(that isn’t an attempt to get an invitation! 
)
i’d also love to go to Japan for a long time…
Hey ! any Forum member is more than Welcome here
even for a family too
i can sleep on my living room floor
smile
for me i view people here as people
first then i notice the distinction next
whether token Buddhist or Muslim or
local meaning Cantonese or from another
province
which is how Chinese react to each other
inside but immediately n strongly will
call themselves Chinese towards foreigners
guangxi is a province next to guangdong
smile
all the best
I stopped being part of Christianity the moment I experienced a Eureka moment concerning salvation and if Jesus was real and God was love.
I am more and more dissassociated with Christianity.
That hasn’t happened to me.
thanks! the thought of going without knowing someone there is a bit intimidating…maybe i’ll give some thought to popping over (though may not be able to any time soon)
yeah people are people (and thus God’s children) first…we add on the other bits after! always good to remember that!
ahh so it is just a region thanks!
Greetings
Problem is when I look at Jesus I often see condemnation.
If you do not mind you can view my post Repent ! my perspective ..
You might enjoy my witty biographical musings ... or then it might be more like a comedian who
tries to be witty and is not .. but either way .. you might catch my meaning ...
Should you visit me over here .. you will not see any condemnation ...
just really genuine friendly hugs, laughing, and enjoying the time with you ...
whether you are agnostic, atheist, or whatever ...
attitude is crucially important in developing friendship ...
Thus, I care not where you are ... but who you are ...
meaning I do not sweat the small things ...e.g. where you are -- in relation to your Worldview ...
but rather who you are --- in relation to your willingness to have reciprocal behavior towards me ..
meaning -- you act like an moron .. or rude obnoxious nitwit .. then I will need to have
more patience to spend time with you .. and I am able to do so .. with more than enough
experience with foreigners over here giving me many opportunities to do so ...
but then you step aside from realizing the benefit of being friendly, with a positive attitude
towards developing a reciprocal relationship based on mutual benefit ...
I am completely surrounded by NON-Church going people .. a Virtual Sea of 'em
buddhists, muslims, taoists, consumeristic addicts, along with normal Chinese people
who come from all provinces of China with their particular local behavior ..
thus to find anyone even remotely connected with said Church ..
I would need to travel several hours ( 3-4 ) to HK .. Hong Kong and then locate a Church
enjoyable? fruitful? neccessary ?
I eat, sleep, breathe, and live without any need to seek out Church going people
meaning anyone from token Christian to super spiritual jock ...
If you would like to know .. If you would like to be my brother .. you're in ..
Do you need to demonstrate repentance to me ? see my post .. <img src="/uploads/default/original/1X/15680453330e74f929b585a237613f0bdf61e069.gif" width="15" height="17" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"/>
meaning in the traditional manner...
Do I cordially invite you to be my brother ...e.g. as in NBA bro.. baseball bro .. football bro
beer drinking bro ... Nature hiking bro... even Church bro...
and then swiftly and covertly offer you the typical "bait and switch " scenario ?
forget it ...
I hug Muslims... I hug buddhists.. I hug atheists... I even hug ( surprising myself ) JW!
wow that experience was a really eye opener to me .. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
here I was walking around on a island near HK .. looking for a very tiny Church
out of curiosity and something just to do ...
then a handful of Jehovah Witness people were standing near me ...
so I did not realize what they were at first ... :wink: :wink:
then we got into a really friendly chat .. then the guy left the group
and we started chatting .. then he and another JW took me to find said very tiny Church ..
I was thinking whoa ! this is an eye opener... Shields Up! (for those original Star Trekkies )
after finding it .. I said thanks .. and then we started walking back ..
on the way .. since it was really hot ! on that Sunny day ...
I offered him to join me to go to a small restaurant and get something to drink ...
we went in .. and had a very good time ! because both of us are very interested
in teaching .. how to teach .. and how to deal with parents and other challenges
I hug anyone here .. that appreciates the concept of mutual benefit ...
for those foreigners who would rather think with something below their belt level...
with an chocolate starfish attitude ( :laughing: :laughing: from a thesaurus for rude word )
or those religious people including buddhists, church people, you name it ...
who are only trying to exhibit artificial "holiness" in their greetings to me ...
I exit stage left as politely as possible unless ... said person annoys me ..
then depending on situation -- keep as much patience as possible or act normal ..
meaning -- express my emotive reaction with as much american sarcasm I can muster
along with the body language of someone smiling with passion ...
These people over here have "zero" comprehension or understanding of
what is Obedience due God's traditional posture towards his so called "Elect"
or the continual need for awareness concerning one's repentance ...
in order to enhance, promote or increase their "brownie points" with said God...
please excuse my tongue and cheek regarding "brownie points"
I surely realize that many Christians or Church going members ..
are not attempting to do this directly .. since it would have nil effect anyway ...
I am sure that many have a different view of God than I do ...
My perspective of Life here .. follows from my other posts...
but the key point is ...
Should we seek mutual benefit ... and not personal autonomous behavior ...
then We are reading the same story .. singing the same tune...
flying kites in the same field ...
If so .. then there is a HUGE sign at the Entrance to said field...
Condemnation, Guilt, and Cognates...
please leave your "baggage" at the appropriate bench before entering
otherwise massive, ponderous Life-guards will forcibly remove said
un-invited guests along with their "baggage"
By the Way ... Open invitation to any.. including Family ...
I have a 3 bedroom, 3 bath, apartment in a quiet, safe, enjoyable Community
with a swimming pool and easy access to more than several nice parks along the
Jiaomen river... which has easy access to GZ ( guangzhou) Metro to typical
huge shopping malls... :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Also if you wish to see a HUGE, enormous, gargantuan Computer shopping area
in SZ (shenzhen) I can take you there...
there is also a cool Window on the World -- which by the way is much much
better than Window on China in Taiwan ...
GZ has tons of shopping malls for clothes .. as well as SZ
there is also a good size Ocean side park ...
there is a Hydro-foil fast Ferry not far from where I live that directly takes you
to Star Ferry in HK .. where you can shop until you drop and more... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
To help people consider their finances ..
staying in my place is free .. as in Linux is free... with the same meaning ..
not free as in --- "free lunch" there is no such thing... :wink:
the food -- if you choose to go along with the locals then really cheap
otherwise KFC and McDonald's along with Pizza Hut n More and other restaurants are available
and SUBWAY sandwiches are my fantastic staple !!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
all the best !deleted.
Hey Get out of the house. Do something for someone else. Buy a bum a burger, and listen to their story.
This was an excellent bit of advice given to me when plumbing the depths of the Black Pit. It’s good advice because it plugs us into the life of God. The Father continually gives himself to the Son, and the Son continually gives himself to the Father. This is the infinitely self-reinforcing feedback loop that lies at the heart of reality.
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify me, so that I may glorify you.”
Though I’ve never been much of a drinker, I have beat myself up and despaired in isolation in the past… I’m not sure what your living situation is, bro, but you really shouldn’t isolate yourself like that when the isolation is killing you… try to find people you can hang out with when you’re feeling down, or at least talk to over the phone or online… easier said than done, I know… sometimes when you’re feeling down like that, you just want to crawl into a corner somewhere, but try to find people to talk to, people you can trust and whom you know have been in similar places to where you are, and can understand where you’re coming from…
I think at this point it’s not so much that you need to find some reason to hold onto Christianity, but you need to find reasons for why your life is worth living, find things that you can be thankful for, find things that give you joy, look for beauty and meaning in your life, and in whatever you can… hold onto what really matters to you, to what really speaks to your heart…
I just don’t want to see you give into despair, bro. There is always hope, even in the darkest of times.
And trust me, I’ve been in some pretty dark times, so I know what I’m talking about… you can always find a little light to keep you going… and it may not always be much, but it can be enough.
And sometimes that light can be the love and support of other people. So don’t be afraid to reach out for that, bro.
I think the fact that you are here though, even if it’s mostly just to vent, is a good sign. At least it means that you are still looking for something to hold onto, and that you haven’t gone completely crazy or given up completely yet. Just keep doing that bro, keep fighting the dark in whatever way you can… you may yet find some more light to live by…
Pilgrim, I have searched for the “George Mac vs Grace” thread and have not found it.
Could you provide a link?
Now I feel like I can’t get out. This is all wrong; the crushing guilt and fear, the self-hatred…
Why is this called “Good News”?
The yoke is not easy, and the burden is not light.