The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Is God Completely Other?

Theology Biblical Theology
#1

Many quote this passage in an attempt to show that God is inscrutable—that He is so different from us that He is impassive, that He shares no mental characteristics whatever with humanity.

But if that were the case, then what does it mean to have been created in His image? (Gen 1:27)
Certainly, we are not created in God’s physical image, since He is not physical but is totally spirit. (John 4:24)
There seems to be only one way that remains—that we are mentally and emotionally similar, and that we must understand Isaiah 55:8,9 in a different way. I think I know that different way in the light of the preceding verse, Isaiah 55:7.

Any thoughts on this matter?

#3

Paidion, I think the verse is basically saying, “I, God, am good–unlike you wicked humans.”

It is a real shame that so many Christians think it means, “I, God, am so good that I am evil.”

#4

Geoffrey - thanks for putting that so very well!

#5

Thank you Qaz, Geoffrey and Dave B for your comments. I was hoping you all might say a bit more concerning the passage.
Qaz, I will answer your question, after a few others comment.

#6

I personally see this not as a statement of God being completely other- and certainly not impassive. I do see it as God being “deeper” than we can conceive, more forgiving and compassionate than we can imagine, and more beautiful in His ways than we can contain or wrap our lil pointy heads around.

This therefore requires a certain degree of continuing humility in those who seek Him, and even moreso from those who “represent” Him. :slight_smile:

#7

As far as created in God’s image, I run with the Eastern Orthodox answer, found at In the Image and likeness of God

#8

What do you say to this, Randy?
sitecheck.sucuri.net/results/is.gd

#9

I would say put is.gd in virustotal.com/ - a subsidiary of Google.
Tell me what the majority of the 66 different anti-virus products say.
Tell me what Bit Defender, Kaspersky and Avira - **all top international products **- say (part of Virus total).

Don’t just find me one or 2 products reporting false positives, unless you can find nerds and geeks reporting this also in droves - in online technical forums.

And if you find a product or two saying otherwise:

How is the product rated by internationally recognized, independent testing laboratories, at detecting all their virus and malware testing? Find me where they are ratied at 90% detection rate or higher.
Show me where prominent software online magazine articles rate them in the top 10 to purchase.

Remember, I test each link myself, against Mcfee, Avira, bit Defender and Avast engines - the best in the business. And Google Chrome - the browser I mainly use - has phishing & malware alerts built in. In fact, this is what google says at Manage phishing & malware alertsl

To put this in perspective for everyone, it’s like one or two folks here saying “God created evil”, in a prior forum topic. Even though the majority of contemporary and historical Christian theologians and Christian philosophers say otherwise, Do you believe this statement, since one or two people say so?

I would say it’s up to the ones claiming that “God created evil” or “this website contains malware” - to prove their case. Especially if Google itself, the majority of vendors in Virus Total, and top internationally recognized software vendors - are saying otherwise.

#10

Back to the question of the original post:

Let’s just read verses 7-9 again:

I think verse 7 explains the way in which God’s thoughts are not the usual human thoughts and His ways are not the usual human ways.
For if the wicked person forsakes his ways and returns to Yahweh, then Yahweh will have compassion on him and abundantly pardon.
That is very unlike man’s thoughts and ways. Man wants “justice” done to the evil doer. He wants vengeance and punishment. God wants deliverance for the man from his wicked ways, and wants to have compassion on him.

My signature statement indicates how different God’s way of dealing with the wicked person differs from man’s way.

Jesus, who is Another exactly like the Father, the exact image of the Father’s essence (Heb 1:3) did the same as the Father toward evil doers on earth. He ate and drank with tax collectors (considered to be among the worst evil doers, since they collected more taxes than they were supposed to, so as to keep some of it for themselves) and sinners (this word often referred to prostitutes or other sinners involved in sexual immorality). Instead of stoning the adulteress according to the law of Moses, as the Pharisees who exposed her indicated should be done, Jesus did not condemn her, but asked her to stop sinning (that is committing adultery). So Jesus expressed the heart of his Father in all of his actions and teachings. In that way He indicated that he was the Logos (Expression) of God.

#11

I have never been more free then when I pretty much ditched evangelical Christianity. But that isn’t the only form I find appalling… Basically what I mean is this: All my life I grew up and told how certain verses are to be interpreted, even when it didn’t make sense. It seemed to defy logic… But, the pastor is such a good man and well, it doesn’t feel right to challenge things… I mean, that isn’t what a good Christian does, right? Then of course the appeal to tradition…

I remember reading a commentary for John McArthur and being scared, same with other preachers… I mean, their interpretations MUST be right! Now when I read them, I laugh. No, not because I am better, but rather, because I am of no lesser value than they are. Their interpretation are just that - theirs. It isn’t necessarily the right one. I guess the last 5+ years I have learned to be bold enough to make my own mind on these matters and I find most mainstream Christian commentaries quite distasteful in many respects. Maybe that is because people follow them like sheep? I can’t believe how many people quote piper as if he is the gospel. Then again, I suppose people could argue I do the same with MacDonald. See, no better, but not of lesser value either. :wink:

Sorry - all that to answer the OP: God is not other, he is greater! :slight_smile: that is my interpretation.

#12

Well, I said this before. But I’ll say it again.

Christians look first and foremost, to scripture for answers. And if we can’t agree, we look for the Platonic world of forms, to give us the “perfect scriptural word understanding”. But More often than not - we disagree on what the “perfect” form is. And we look at the winner, as the one who constructs the perfect Aristotelian theological and philosophical argument. But they win persuasion via the politician’s rhetoric.

And has everyone read and understood my prior software response - in this thread?

#13

By the way, Randy, I did check out Virus Total as you suggested. Here is what I found:

virustotal.com/en/domain/is.gd/information/

As you can see, some links are good and some are bad.

#14

Virus Total is just a way to test something. When you shorten a URL, it just stores the original URL in a database and does a 301 redirect. Most are probably LAMP (i.e. Linux, PHP, MySQL) servers. If a company or individual discontinues the original domain name, you won’t be able to find it. Same is true of any other URL shorteners out there.

Actually, URL shorteners currently don’t make money on their service. And if they did plant malware, they would be discovered by companies like Google…the big name software vendors…,the nerds and geeks of the world.

There are three points here that are key:

I test each link myself, against Mcfee, Avira, bit Defender and Avast engines - the best in the business.

Google Chrome - the browser I mainly use - has phishing & malware alerts built in. In fact, this is what google says at Manage phishing & malware alertsl

I can’t find any online tech forum discussions, discussing Malware embedded in is.gd.

Let’s suppose - for the sake of argument - that some innovative and unknown software company, finds genuine malware in is.gd. It’s the same as those saying “God creates evil”. Until I see the majority of contemporary theologians endorsing this and giving their reasons and proof - I won’t accept it. Same goes for the hypothetical software discovery.

When Google confirms it…
Or a few of the major software anti-virus companies agree…
Or the technical nerds and geeks bring it to public attention, on online technical forums -

…some company or individual saying something - without proof - has no meaning.

#16

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/Paidion9/More%20Cartoons/Like_zpsf9decd86.jpg I have to say Gabe… I concur completely! And in that vein I find Paul’s words most affirming…

And as to the OP… yes, at the end of the day “Mercy triumphs over judgment.” Jas 2:13

#17

Well, to recap, I like to use URL shorteners - primarily is.gd. But I use others - like bit.ly. Anyway, Paidion uses Malwarebytes, that thinks it discovered malware in is.gd. And he found some unknown software vendor, whom he believes confirms it. I say they are registering false positives. But:

Google Chrome has build in checks - nothing found on Google servers
Virus Total - subsidiary of Google - has the majority of 66 software vendors, giving it a clean slate.
is.gd has over 1 billion URLs shortened and over 58 billion in use (a figure easy to check, through websites that measure web traffic).
None of the major players, like McAfee, Avira, Bit Defender, Avast or Kaspersky, has found any issues
None of the nerds and geeks on online tech forums, are reporting problems.

That’s the story, in a nutshell.

#19

Well, technically even the best three (debatable, BTW) will still miss things. Same with the big players. Now, what I will concede is that the big players will catch it quickly and will squash it out. But to say nothing gets by the big players… Not so. Typically they are the quickest to release a fix though.

There definitely is a problem with false positives from all anti-virus software and Malware-Bytes focuses more on data mining/malware than Viruses. Although they are very closely related now, they are still different and treated differently. In fact, the big players used to sell their products separately, one that does Malware and one that does Virus checking… A lot of that has merged now.

MalwareBytes often is the best of the lot I have found in my consulting experience. Norton and MacAffee are actually really difficult to deal with because they block many legitimate programs until configured for exceptions. One can argue this is great - Not really, only in an IT managed environment. All else and it becomes everyone else’s problems as Software Vendors have to walk their users through the 30 different potential types of anti-virus software out there - some with very difficult to find exceptions.

One thing I definitely agree with Randy on is that real time scanning should be disabled and should have schedule scans either once a week or once a night when the computer is not in operation. Any computer build in the last 10 years has a decent power saving mode which only takes a few watts of power when idle, or even less when in sleep or hibernation mode. Personally, not a fan of hibernation, but I do think the sleep modes are very beneficial.

#20

I like to edit a series of URL links with the same length. I can cut and paste. But they are used in things like Twitter, where you are limited to 140 character tweets. It’s a nerdy thing. :smiley:

But here is a short explanatory article: 5 Reasons Why URL Shorteners Are Useful :smiley:

#22

I believe that God is other, but not completely. We are not God, but we do have His divine nature which He gave to us as a gift. The seed of God who created us is inside all men who have ever been created upon the earth. Should we follow the essence of His spirit that is instilled within our hearts and minds, inherited from our Father, we become the sons of God that He intended us to be. Each of us being the one and only son of God, uniquely made in His image, as well as one among the many.

#23

I used to use a URL shortener called “tiny URL”.
But now I use a different technique. I just copy the following into my post:

[uurl= ][ccolor=red][bb][uu] [/uu][/bb][/ccolor][/uurl]
(Except wherever I have a double letter, write a single letter instead)

Then I copy the full length URL after the equal sign in [

Here is an example of a link to the thread “Essentials”: Essentials](. Then I write the shortened version between )

#24

Without reading this long and no doubt fruitful and enlightening conversation ( :wink: ), I gotta weigh in at least a little . . .

God IS completely other in that He is not a man–He is not a human being. He BECAME a human being in Christ, but He is Spirit. He’s not limited in time or space, and He’s not petty and vengeful and selfish like humans tend to be. He’s not just bigger and better and nicer than us. He’s a whole new category of love and truth and beauty from us. We are the moon (if we are His) and He is the sun.

On the other hand, God is NOT completely other in that He is conforming us to the image of His Son. We are to be like Him. He is growing us up into His glory. A screaming infant is very different from his (hopefully) calm, patient, mature parents. Nevertheless, he is also not completely different, in that his parents quite reasonably desire that he will become more like them as he matures. That’s not to say that we will become God, but we ARE to partake of His nature and become like Him. To me, this does denote a certain similarity (or at least, potential similarity) between us and our Father God.