This could get some interesting replies !
But seriously, first I come to see that the story of the serpent and Adam in the garden, is likely just that, a story. Maybe to show some truths, but contradicting the evidence of natural history.
Now I see that eternal hell is not only a ridiculous and contradictory concept, but it is not even scriptural!
Now, not only doesnt he get credit for starting all the problems in life, he doesn’t even have a hellish eternal kingdom to look forward to, and he won’t get to keep any souls permanently!
Jesus, he did say he came to destroy the works of the Devil. Maybe he got it done! Is the Devil in the unemployment line now?
Is he still prowling around like a lion and is he deluded into thinking he can make a comeback? Is he dead? maybe he never existed at all and is just a metaphor for our own sin? questions questions!
I never did see hell as the devil’s kingdom, or him keeping any souls under his thumb for eternity. Even if you believe in ECT, if you read scripture at its face value, Satan ends up suffering in the lake of fire along with everyone else (contrary to some popular fiction masquerading as fact). Is Satan a metaphor for evil and temptation (or whatever), or is he an individual? I suspect he is in fact an individual, but whether he is or not, Jesus cast SOMETHING out of the men at the tombs and allowed it to enter the swine. Clearly, there are demonic forces which can be successfully contended with by believers, using the name of Jesus. His disciples did enough casting out of demons (as Jesus had commanded them) to prove that demons were still in evidence even after the ascension.
But of course, Satan’s days are over as far as Heaven is concerned. God sees things from an eternal perspective after all, and I think it’s reasonable to expect that He sees truest.
The works of the devil have not been completely destroyed yet, he/ it is still functioning in the role of deceiver, accuser, and adversary. One day that will all come to an end though once that purpose has been fulfilled, and whatever satan is will be put right, along with the rest of creation.
In other words, the devil hasn’t been made redundant yet…
Maybe he is the one behind the hell doctrine. Since he cannot get us into hell, at least he can make us think we are going there, to get us into fear I guess?
Cindy, yeah, after I became a calvinist, I was taught to believe hell wasn’t ruled by satan, it was the father’s wrath on him and on the damned non elect objects of god’s hatred! yuck, I almost would rather worship the devil 
I personally believe that satan is man’s carnal nature, meaning that our carnal nature is the enemy of our Father. Our carnal nature along with our wicked desires comes from the heart and nothing is more wicked (Jer 17:9). But I would like to ask one question regarding devils. Is it possible that devils were made robotic only to make contrasts in our lives? I don’t believe them to be fallen angels as in 2Pet it tells us that these angels are in restraints and not roaming freely among men.
Interesting S O M, I suspect you may be right about it being our carnal nature that God wants us to battle. I wonder, how did our heart become wicked? what does it mean to be wicked? Is it something that developed over millions of years of natural development that now serves no purpose in our new spiritual evolution?
I suspect it may have something to do with certain desires we have. Even we Christians have hidden desires. Lust, revenge, greed, want, and I could go on all morning listing them. It is these desires we have from the heart that we at times seek. This is the carnal nature in us. The serpent is symbolic for our carnal nature. Christ called Peter satan, because it was his carnal nature of want that did not want Christ fullfill His purpose. There are also clues in the garden in Genesis as well.
You may be on to something here. the thing I still don’t understand, is why God would say our natural desires are sinful or even satanic. For instance lust, isn’t that somthing we needed to evolve and survive as a species? when did it all of a sudden become sin?
What do we say then about Jesus battle in the wilderness with satan, is his nature also sinful?
It is not what we desire that is sin, it is unrestrained desires (Matthew 5:27-30), and the desires we commit to. I am married, but if I desire to go online and look at pornography, and realize that I am tempted, I pray and ask my Father to strengthen my armour, and my desire leaves me. But if I actually go on the internet and surf porn to fulfill my desire, I have sinned against my Father and my wife. Remember, evil is not sin, because our Father created it (Isaiah 45:7).
Hello Michael,
This question is very important. The question is not “Is the Devil out of a job?” but rather, “Who, or more correctly), what is the devil.”
Several years ago, a friend of mine tried to tell me the answer, but I found that he lacked the evidence in proving it even though he was full convinced. It needed to be a progression of understanding for me to get to that point.
First I needed to address the Lucifer myth and prove that there is no such Celestial creature who rebelled against God in Heaven. No only is there no proof for such doctrine in Scripture, the logical propositions of such event never happening and could never happen are plenty and if it did God is also doomed to fail.
Matthew 12:25
And knowing their thoughts, He said to them, Any kingdom that is divided against itself is being brought to desolation and laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will last or continue to stand.
Second I needed to address who or what the serpent was in the Garden, and to do that we need to find out who told the first lie. Amazingly, due to preconditioning and religious rhetoric, nobody recognizes the first lie was told by Woman to the serpent. What was that lie? “Do not touch.”
Genesis 3:2-4
And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat the fruit from the trees of the garden, except the fruit from the tree which is in the middle of the garden. God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.
Third, we discover some main characteristics of who Jesus, when he calls particular individuals spawn of Devil.
John 8:44
You (Pharisee, Lawyers of Mosaic Law, Sadducee) are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false.
Matthew 23:33 You serpents! You spawn of snakes! How can you escape the judgment of Gehenna?
The serpent in Genesis, in metaphorical terms, came about when Adam (or Woman) created the new ‘command’. What is this process of adding to God’s commands? The serpent, not being ‘who’, but rather a ‘what’, is the administration of men’s teachings and calling it ‘God’s’ Commands. It is vain religion.
Luke 11:46
But He said, Woe to you, the lawyers, also! For you load men with oppressive burdens hard to bear, and you do not personally [even gently] touch the burdens with one of your fingers.
Jesus came to destroy the work of false religion.
1 John 3:8
The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].
The devil is not God’s Law, the devil is the law men made, though innocently believing it would protect them from breaking God’s Law.
Hence why Jesus said:
Mark 10:5
But Jesus said to them, Because of your hardness of heart your condition of insensibility to the call of God] he wrote you this precept in your Law.
John 8:17
**In your [own] Law **it is written that the testimony (evidence) of two persons is reliable and valid.
John 10:34
Jesus answered, Is it not written in your Law, I said, You are gods?
There is plenty more but the basic premise is simple.
The devil is the system of beliefs created by men and called them God. Religion remain today the #1 reason for war, the #1 reason for genocide, the #1 reason for murder, etc. Whether it be Christian, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, etc. you will find out the true Adversary for the truth, the true Murderer, the true Destroyer.
Jesus came to destroy that work, and he did not fail. People are seeing the truth because they are leaving the den of serpents.
@studentoftheword, I agree with you about who or what the serpent is, but I cannot see how religion can be a serpent.
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
The word “subtil” is often translated as “prudent” or other more glowing terms in the King James version. Remember, man is being made in God’s image.
Notice Eve’s response to this question from the serpent:
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Now if Eve is using the plural here of “we” then this means that the Serpent would have knowledge of Adam if indeed the Serpent is not Adam or that Adam is in the company of Eve when this is taking place.
Now notice carefully this verse a bit later:
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Notice the above. It was important to include the words “with her”. Adam was with Eve when this was taking place. But let’s continue.
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Notice how Adam blames Eve. Now why would Adam respond the way he did. Of all the things Adam could have said he said “The woman whom thou gaves to be with me”. Think about this for a moment. Adam would find no helpmeet for him and so God makes Eve from his side and gives Eve to Adam. So my belief is that Adam (the serpent) is having concerns about taking the forbidden fruit. He knows that is will make him to know good and evil and he knows that Eve was given to him from God. So if he gets Eve to take of it and give to him then it looks like he is not at fault.
Let’s jump ahead to Jeremiah:
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Above we learn about the heart of man. Notice it says above ALL things.
“is it not written that you are gods”, but satan happens to be the god of this world. I hope you can see the connection brother.
OK, so our desires are not in themselves sinful, it is how we handle them, am I understanding you correctly?
Interesting comment about evil there. How would you define evil?
Some would say that evil is the absence or opposite of good, but I think a more accurate way to characterize evil is “that which is destructive”. That covers more of the senses of meaning that the Hebrew word *Ra * has. That is why ‘evil’ can be used for an ultimately good purpose; something can be destroyed, only to be ‘rebuilt’ or restored to something better than it was before.
If our evil desires of our heart are unrestrained they are sinful. As for evil, it works as a Contrast for our Father’s purpose. We are not in these vessels for just our Father’s sake, but also for our sake. The time we spend on earth and all its contrasts prepare us for God’s second tool. The Comparison. He makes us disobedient so He can show us His mercy (Rom 11:32). In order for you to know light and appreciate it, you must first know darkness. Just as we now know that hell is not real, we first had to believe in the lie to latter adore the truth. Now that we know the truth, our love and appreciation for our Father grows even more and more with each prayer (speaking from my own experience). This experience will be even greater when out time comes as prodigal sons, when we return home to our Father as we were all meant to be eventually. I hope this helps brother.
It seems to me that concluding that Satan doesn’t exist strains interpretation to the point of breaking. When I was in high school I knew this guy who was an atheist who said he believed in the bible, but that God didn’t really exist, he was merely love personified. Every verse that I quoted to him that showed God existing, speaking, commanding, questioning, etc. he would twist it around and say, in some strange fashion that it was simply love personified. I’m a very open minded guy. I don’t think you can get to the place of accepting UR as a 42-year conservative evangelical unless you have an open mind, but I’ve read some threads on this site about the non existence of Satan and I find them to be quite unconvincing. It seems like you have to stretch and strain relatively simple readings to the point of scriptural contortionism. I’m not really interested in debating it as I’ve already read the arguments given here and in a few other places and find them unconvincing. I, for one, think Satan is real and that he seeks to devour us in addition to our own sinful nature.
Chris
No one ever said the satan doesn’t exist, I personally believe that satan is our carnal nature instead of this supernatural entity that most believe satan is.
The story of Adam and Eve, is a parable. It is seeing they will not see, hearing they will not understand. The serpent. the most crafty is talking about humanity. Since when do serpents speak, unless they are Man.
Look in all of creation, what ‘creature’ did God make more subtil, or prudent, but man himself.
Exactly, Adam is the Serpent.
Why are they serpents? Because they make laws and commands that were not God’s and claim them to be God and force others follow. That is the devil.
I believe it is both. Satan, after all, is his own carnal nature.
But I’d have to expand upon that in another thread perhaps, my concept of trueself/falseselfness.
So what are you saying, that Adam and Eve were not living beings and did not give birth to Cain and Able? It sounds like you have been reading some of Neville Goddards books, not that I am saying I dont believe in his teachings.