I don’t know, I will have to do some thinking on this. God makes us disobedient? and then we get the blame, that just doesn’t add up, even an earthly father wouldn’t do that. I know you are quoting scripture,and I believe scripture has inspiration, I guess I would no longer be a believer at all if I didnt, but is everything we read in the bible true? Thanks for sharing your thought , very interesting!
I don’t know who that is. I only do study on the Scriptures.
Neville was a Christian and theologian. He believed that most of the stories in the OT were parables. Quite fasinating actually.
found this thread of thought interesting, but unsure how to multi quote lol
Michael Thompson, you asked about some sinful desires being natural and promoting the survival of the species over millions of years. this is a very interesting thought.
i have wondered how everything fits together, and this may offer a clue. i have felt that God grows us up in myriad ways…somethings we know are not acceptable now were commonplace years ago, such as slavery, sexism, racism, etc.
going back far enough, in order to maintain social order in a hostile world, some things naturally became institutionalised, such as perhaps patriarchal roles for men, as the hunger/gatherer/defenders, and women became the homemakers. slaves were necessary and the role sometimes was for justice or a sign of conquering another. all useful things in a hostile and dangerous world. racism, which is an extreme form of fearing the outsiders (xenophobia) was natural…you would have your nice little community, then someone different would show up…distrust was natural!
however, we as a world (to varying degrees) have grown out of this. despite the evils practiced by the church (which was, naturally, a part of the evil world from which it came, and thus was acting “naturally” for the time), it was a very influential force in the world, and as a result the world has grown up even more. now, i think many may believe that religion forms a sort of training wheels that we now also have grown out of…and i can see that point, though this still requires there to have been a parent present to teach us, so even if we are growing up in God’s eyes (stroppy teenager phase now?), He is still there, and even when you have matured, you still hopefully have a loving relationship with your parents, ideally.
where i’m going with this is that in our infanthood, as humans, we naturally acted in certain ways analogous to a selfish, needy baby that smacks other kids if they touch our toys. gradually, God has grown us up, and as a result, childish behaviour that was tolerated back then are not tolerated now. children, let’s be honest, can be AWFUL. discipline and experience are needed to cause the child to behave in a better way. maybe that’s why certain things become sin when they didn’t used to be?
when i became a man, i put away childish things.
erm, i just realised this is massively off topic, so i will close saying that i don’t believe in a literal devil. i personally find the arguments FOR his existence strained. there are difficult passages, but i feel that most are explainable in other ways…
so is he out of a job? well i think that he is human nature personified…all our evil summed up. i think God can still bring good out of evil, and will continue to teach us through this medium until the end. He didn’t spawn evil, we did, but He can use it.
This about sums it up, eccept for the last part about evil in my opinion.
Great post “corpselight” thanks, I don’t believe it was totally off topic, since the devil has been fired, it is relevant to ask where sin and evil came from.
I think I lean towards, sword’s opinion on evil, since God created nature (we do believe that here, don’t we?) and nature is full of evils, then God is responsible for it, no?
i don’t believe God created evil, or intended evil…but that might not hold up philosophically…as creating the potential for evil could be considered evil, all the death of the food chain during evolution could be considered evil…hard to say.
Lets settle this right now about who creates evil here. Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. The hebrew word “ro” רָע means evil.
And see my post earlier in the thread about why I think we have trouble believing this verse. In addition, God says that he created the destroyer specifically for that purpose.
I agree with those who see the serpent or “devil” as a personification of something more “natural” (rather than as a supernatural entity), and who believe that God is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil in the world. My own view regarding the serpent is that it figuratively represents those desires which, when yielded to, result in sin: Only a few find it.
Im inclined to agree with this line of thinking in general. We are tempted when we are enticed and carried away by our own “lusts” (desires). The serpent literally means the “shining one” (ooh, pretty!), or something that whispers/ hisses. This is a very good description of how our desires entice us to sin. Our desires say, “Did God really say?” “Is God really good? Then why would He deny you this (insert tempting thing here)…”
I am curiouse as to learn how you believe the serpent is the shining one? Where does this come from?
I believe that it is a misnomer, associating Lucifer (Shining One) with the serpent. As they are not even related, nor the same. 
I might be misremembering, but I don’t think the “shining one” necessarily refers to a being. I can see how that could be misconstrued as a reference to Lucifer though. I’ll have to go look it up again, lol.
Ah, you’re right. I was thinking of something else: Here’s the definition from Strong’s:
H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash’
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: - X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.
The transliteration of “serpent” is actually an extension of the primary meaning of this word, which is to hiss or whisper.
to learn by experience, the serpent hangs from the tree of knowledge of GandE (tokogae), people wonder why we have so much pain, and problems in this world, that was brought about due to the tokogae, the tokogae is about experience, the serpent represents our carnal nature, our senses
Heb 5:8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
Very good! 
I am sure we can find comparison between the First Adam and the Second Adam, Adam in Genesis, to Jesus.