The largest Christian newspaper in Australia, Eternity, is published by Australian Christian Pty Ltd and is delivered free to many churches around Australia, including my church. In this month’s edition, the centrefold contained two short reviews (one titled “BAD READ”, which I’m replying to below, and one titled “GOOD READ”, which is really worth reading) of Rob Bell’s Love Wins.
"]Every couple of years, one book sets off a firestorm among Christians: this year it is a book about Hell appropriately enough. Rob Bell’s Love Wins has been a best seller off the back of protests by conservative Christians. John Piper, recently in Australia for Oxygen conference tweeted “farewell Rob Bell” drumming him out of evangelical Christianity
My reply to BAD READ Bell’s book kills off Christian mission says Marty Foord (Marty Foord is Lecturer in Systematic Theology and Church History at Trinity Theological College in Perth)
Indeed.
Yes, he said it more strongly than I would’ve, and I think that it actually hindered the overall effectiveness of the book.
I’d say it’s more than just being repulsed, I think it’s more an issue of Eternal Conscious Torment/Punishment not being compatible with Scripture (e.g. Lam 3 which Bell quotes on p86, along with many other similar verses) or with the character of God, who is revealed in Scripture as the Father & love itself, not to mention in Christ Himself!
On the Cross, i.e. Col 1:19-22 which Bell quotes in a few places e.g. p125
I don’t recall him going even as far as C.S. Lewis did in The Last Battle, but I might be mistaken?
I agree.
Overall I found Love Wins convincing, however, I’ll admit that I thought Rob Bell was too creative in his use of a few texts.
Bell was trying to write a short, thought provoking book, primarily for lay people (in November he’s releasing the Study Guide for Love Wins, so hopefully that will satisfy the more academic).
It’s true he doesn’t specifically address this verse, but I’m guessing given that this verse uses aionios, that he would simply say, like he does elsewhere, that aionios is mistranslated “everlasting” instead of “eonian” or “intensity of experience uniquely associated with God”.
Marty is correct that the word in Matt 25 isn’t aion, however, I think Marty misunderstands Bell’s intended audience. For his audience, even mentioning the Greek might be a stretch, let alone differentiating between aion, aionios, aionion, etc. Anyway, Bell is still correct that many translations mistranslated even aion as “forever”, “eternal”, etc, when it simply should be “age” or “eon”.
I can’t remember how Bell supports postmortem salvation (although I know he’s a fan of C.S. Lewis & Talbott, who both do), but it probably included some of the following:
]there are a couple of passages which were used to support it by some of the Church fathers (even Augustine, as far as I can tell)/]
]there isn’t any passages which say there isn’t postmortem repentance/]
]there are ones which describe the end result of universal reconciled relationships with God/]
]there are ones which describe God being all in all (only possible by the Holy Spirit)/]
]there are ones which describe everyone offering God their complete worship/]
]there’s a Biblical pattern of restoration following destruction/]
]there’s God Holiness/perfection which desires to make everything holy/perfect as it was sans Creation/]
]last, but definitely not least, there’s the unchanging character of God, as a Father, eternally overflowing with intertrinitarian love for the other/]
Given we know the only way for the above to be satisfied is repentance & faith in Christ, it’s not a huge jump to say it therefore must happen postmortem, when it doesn’t happen during this lifetime. I think we are definitely encouraged to repent in this lifetime, but that doesn’t rule out salvation in the next.
Some aspects of the traditional Hell, Bell doesn’t think need “erasing”. I think he would say the problem is more with it being ingrained in the mainstream Church tradition (& popularised by people like Dante), rather than Scripture. In regards to the Biblical narrative, Bell does speak about this, he believes the Scriptures have a pattern of death/destruction/punishment followed by life/restoration/salvation, penultimately shown in Christ.
This is true for some people, however, throughout this book Bell has appealed to the authority of Scripture, and one only has to read/listen to his other material, to see he doesn’t reject it.
There has always been, and it’s growing, Bible believing Christians who don’t believe the tradition hell lines up with the Scriptures.
I beg to differ, I think Bell has an understanding which doesn’t divide God (p39, although the “Further Reading” goes into this more). i.e God’s justice is loving & His love is just. God doesn’t do anything unloving, nor does He do anything unjust.
Eternal anger achieves nothing, it doesn’t bring the promised reconciliation & whole hearted praise of God. It also implies the universe is never rid of sin, because many would go on hating God forever. We must remember that “The Lord will NOT cast off forever. Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His mercies.” Lam 3:31-32 and “For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made.” Isaiah 57:16
Both Bell & Evangelical Universalists would say a hearty “Amen!” to that.
But the hurt and anger don’t (or shouldn’t) cause the parents to love the child less, or to disown the child! The reason they are angry is because they love the child & don’t want to see the child harm themselves & others. They might have to punish/discipline them, but only as much as is needed, not out of revenge or because they are personally offended.
Indeed! “For his anger is but for a moment, and his favor is for a lifetime. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning.” Psalm 30:5. I think the parable of the Prodigal Son is also very helpful to understanding God’s fatherhood.
I’d say He’s those things and much more. He is love, perfectly moral, just, merciful, the source of all truth, goodness & life.
Which is why He approached us in Christ & by the Holy Spirit.
Yes, God is infinitely angry, but He is out of love for each & every human, and therefore the punishment that is provoked is consistent with that, so the we can truly say “where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more” Rom 5:20. Btw I don’t think Mark 3:29 supports Marty’s point when you look at the Greek (scripture4all.org/OnlineInte … f/mar3.pdf).
Amen!
Amen!
The great irony here is that ECT/P is a situation where many children won’t be returned to either their earthly parents or their heavenly Father (so it means justice would never be done!).
The Cross satisfied all justice, not hell. Although as I said earlier the punishment there is just. Hell in Scripture is a place where God refines people, like a metalworker does in a furnace, until they are ready to repent (with the Spirit’s help).
Evil has stolen & enslaved us, we all need to return to our owner, God.
The Cross restore divine justice.
No offense but I think the reason you can’t grasp how it’s good is because God has given you a conscience & the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you it isn’t if it doesn’t end.
We are told to test everything (1 Thess 5:21-22).
I don’t think Bell distorts the Gospel, in fact he sees the scope & effectiveness of what Christ has done, greatly increased.
Bell thinks God eternally loves everyone, that is more loving than the traditional God who hates many people in hell.
It’s true some people will become lazier, however, from experience most people become more evangelistic, as they realise the value of a relationship with God now, the freedom from the slavery to sin, the opportunity to stop offending God, etc. see Even without ECT/P there are still reasons to be a Christian
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