The Evangelical Universalist Forum

My Top Six Scriptures That Show Jesus Will Save All People


#162

How would that benefit them?


#163

Thank you for your response. I totally forget we had that sub-topic going in this thread :stuck_out_tongue:


#164

In my opinion? It would exalt God as God. It wouldnt leave the reconciliation up to “I hope” but know that God is in control and thus it will be. At first it was just a fun topic to talk about. Until some started, whether intentionally or unintentionally, patronizing me and other completely avoiding to directly respond to my inquries while time and time again I responded to theirs.


#165

The very fact that Ive gotten everyone who believes in “free will” to admit “its limited” is good enough for me. Because its illogical to say its limited and yet free at the same time.

Some have even thrown out Gods foreknowledge, even though its stated in scriptures many time, because the very argument of if God foreknows then it must be.


#166

If God has authority over man’s libertarian free will, He can do whatever He wants to bring about His greater glory. For example, hardening Pharoah’s heart. That doesn’t prove Pharaoh had no LFW.


#167

No offence but that makes no sense. Did pharoah have a choice in God hardening His heart?

If no then His will isnt free

If yes then God did not have authority of his supposed “free will”


#168

Like the analogy I posted above about clipping a birds wing and then saying it has the freedom to fly.


#169

But on a side note. I wanna genuinely thank you origen for actually addressing my inquiries directly. even if we dont agree and I, personally, dont see the logic in your statement.


#170

Free will - the argument that keeps on giving. For over 3,000 years now.
I’m glad we’ve settled it.


#171

Whats your opinion on foreknowledge? Does God foreknow everything? If so can our “free will” do the opposite of what He foreknew?


#172

Lol.

Im not arrogant enough to say that 100% not wrong. Ive just never seen a refutation that seemed logical for me to switch sides. And ive never really seen a satisfactory explanation of verses stating God subjects,purposes and foreknows that would validate “free will”.


#173

And the reason is - if one chooses either of the extremes in this argument, there are impossible contradictions to surmount.
If one chooses the FWED answer, which involves the simple concept of synergy - the problem dissolves imo. Would that it would dissolve forever. :slight_smile:


#174

Im assuming fwed is some acronym for the idea of compatiblism?


#175

That’s not the way I intended it, actually. Free Will Enough Defense is more general than that - simply saying that we have the freedom of choice God wants us to have. We have enough to choose Him and to flee evil, enough to love others or not, etc. It’s a very general theory and I intended it that way.
Unfortunately, it does not leave much to argue about lol.


#176

Id argue against that :stuck_out_tongue:


#177

“no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him”


#178

What you could do, just for fun, is to try taking the other side of the argument. Find those scriptures - there are hundreds - that show God demanding people to make a choice. If you tried that - and I did once upon a time - well, for me it answered the question, and FWED made it’s appearance.


#179

To me God does ALL the saving. Convicting us through conscience, giving grace and faith, producing fruits, etc. Its not something we will up inside of ourselves.

Ive made the argument before that if any part of salvation can be attributed to ourselves it is not 100% God.


#180

If LFW is a creation of God that He has Sovereignty over, then God can overrule it at His pleasure, just like a man turning off a light switch. Just because the light is turned off that doesn’t mean the light bulb & electricity don’t exist. If God doesn’t provide light to a man, then his LFW can never make the choice of choosing light over darkness. All God has to do to put freewill on mute is turn out the lights. In so doing the man is blinded & walks in darkness, & even though he still has a LFW he must be a slave of sin.


#181

I don’t know. I’m looking into Open Theism.