The Evangelical Universalist Forum

New Book on UR

Studies Books
#1

Forum members may be interested to know that I have recently published on Kindle a new book attempting to summarise the arguments for universalism and against damnationism in a serious but accessible way - i.e. not a work for the specialist theologian but the informed general reader. I have dealt with the arguments under four ‘pillars’ - scripture, morality, atonement and theodicy. I think I have covered every major argument reasonably fairly but it would be nice to have some feedback either way! I have drawn on classic and recent universalist theologians but tried to provide an overview not available elsewhere. My big problem remains my inability to envisage a theology of atonement that makes sense of Calvary.

The book is called Hell to Pay? The blasphemous absurdity of damnationism.

The first chapter is readable without any cost!

#2

Thanks for the tip, I will check out that first chapter!

As to the atonement, I found the following study very helpful: (I got it on kindle)
amazon.com/Sacrifice-Jesus-U … n+eberhart

#3

Thank you!

#4

I’ve bought it and will have a read later.

Did you try to have it published in print form?

Good uck with the book,

Mike

#5

Thanks! Hope you find it useful. I did not try to get it published as a physical book - would not really have had a clue how to go about it!

#6

Here is the best book I have ever encountered on the true gospel, including the atonement from Amazon. You can look at the table of contents, and read part of the book without buying it.

I purchased my copy for kindle at $9.99

amazon.ca/Healing-Gospel-Radical-Vision-Justice/dp/1620321629

#7

djFav - I read that first chapter - I think ‘hard-hitting’ would be an understatement! Bravo!

Paidion, thanks for the tip, I’ll check that out as well.

#8

Thanks for the last 2 messages - I like ‘hard hitting’ - I hoped it would be. A dithering friend of mine thought it too contentious. I disagreed! I’ll check out that book - certainly comes well recommended.

David

#9

Just looking through the first chapter, DJ. Ha! :laughing: Tell us what you REALLY think! :wink:

#10

The more I thought about damnationism and damnationists the more irritated / angry with them I got!! Obviously it comes over. Perhaps my role is the be a universalist Rottweiler as Pope Benedict was once said to be the God’s!

#11

As much as damnationalism hurts people – REALLY hurts people – I personally think there’s a place for adamant denunciation of the doctrine. I’m kind of done with the pussy-footing too.

#12

I’m going to stick with the scripture:

I’m done with Universalism. God knows I’ve tried. But I will never subscribe to this. I’m moving on and forward. I’ve learned over the years that this isn’t who I am and the scriptures agree.

#13

Dear Cole,

I am sorry to hear that! Please see my book - or even better one by a real expert - before you shut the door too firmly. The Bible is not unambiguously damnationist and as I tried to show damantionism is totally incoherent and incompatible with a loving God (see Prof Talbott’s book especially if you are not convinced). Do you REALLY think that God created billions of people to damn them for ever? If so you have a very unpleasant deity.

Can you answer the dead babies question I pose? If so, please let me know.

Good luck in your quest for truth.

David

#14

I wish I was brave enough to be more open myself - I am still reluctant to tell some of my colleagues at the church about my book and I’ve not told the vicar. I criticise others for keeping quiet but am as guilty as anyone. I don’t have a single open ally in the congregation - though a few are leaning our way.

#15

It’s tough that’s for sure. You might be interested in Peter Hiett’s first UR sermon that Catherine posted here:

It cost him his church. I’m not sure I’m that brave either. On the one hand you don’t want to offend people or certainly not to alienate them, but on the other, how can you keep ignoring the weeds? You’ve done a great job on your book so far. I’ve not been able to get too far into it; we’ve had family visiting; but I’m really enjoying it. How long have you believed in the “blessed hope” as Gerry Beauchemin puts it?

At this point, I don’t attend a church. My husband can’t, for health reasons, and I’m not all that interested unless I could find a church that was more than showing up and listening to sermons. I can listen to sermons at home. If there’s no community it’s really not worth the trouble to me. But if I were to go back to a church, I don’t think I’d hold back; not that I’d be getting into people’s faces or anything, but I’m done hiding and being afraid to speak lest I offend someone. This really IS an important doctrine, and hell is one of those toxic weeds sown by the enemy. I believe that with all my heart. I’ve had enough people scream HERETIC!!! BLASPHEMER!!! online that I’ve kind of lost my sensitivity to it. :laughing: I’m sure though that it’d be worse face to face. Or maybe not. :wink: You never know until you actually experience it.

#16

I don’t think I ever really believed in eternal Hell but I only started to think seriously about theology about 8 years ago when I began to study it academically. I began to explore the options without committing to any. I was not interested in hymns / rituals - I am still not really. I was having a bad time a few years back and went to a church where I knew some people. I knew a young man at the school I worked at who was a hard line Calvinist - we had friendly debates and email exchanges and that turned into the book. I would like a church with a more reasonable outlook but I like the people at the one I go to and I don’t know any universalist churches near me. Glad you are liking the book. I will have to pluck up the courage to be more open.

#17

David,

I realize that a lot of versions of eternal justice are crazy but the majority that I’ve read are the just punishment of evil. People in hell are separated from God’s grace forever and remain evil forever. Indeed, the longer one stays in hell the more evil they become and thus the more just God’s punishment of them is. One of the main things God is doing by justly punishing evil and keeping it out of the new creation is protecting His children (the bride of Christ) from evils influence and corruption. The glory of God’s justice shines forever as He shows His tender love to His children. Far from being blasphemous this God is eternally holy and just. People in hell are evil and remain that way because they are separated from God’s grace (common and saving).

#18

Makes God sound a little stingy, though, doesn’t it? Does He run out of grace? Is His heart not big enough to love everyone? Why and how could we call ECT ‘just’ in ANY sense of the word? There is imo no justification at all in the concept of eternal damnation. None. At all. $.02

#19

Dave,

Because God’s grace is removed from the hearts of those in hell they act according to their own corrupt desires and will. God hands them over and let them go their own way. They are rebels who willfully reject God as they don’t want to have anything to do with Him. God is never obligated to give the gift of grace to such people. What they get is justice. It’s like the philanthropist who goes to a homeless shelter and buys three people a house. Surely the philanthropist is under no obligation to by the rest a house just because she buys three a house. How much more so is this true for God when dealing with rebel sinners who don’t want to have anything to do with Him. It’s not selfish or unjust to punish evil people forever who remain that way forever.

#20

Hmmm…we’re not going to convince on another - my aim was just to give some assurance to an outsider who might be cruising through here, that the utterly horrible Calvinistic portrayal of ‘god’ is NOT, for many of us, the scriptural God the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, whose Son came to seek and to save the lost.