Matthew 10:28
28`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
Now this doesnt make sense if gehenna was just a garbage dump. Why would God destroy someones soul in a garbage dump?
Note: Jesus used the original word Gehenna, which is translated hell, in the above Scripture, but He obviously wasnât referring to the fires of the Valley of Hinnom - He was talking about the future lake of fire that will be used to destroy the enemies of God (Revelation 19:20, 20:13-15).
It got me worried. I thought the term âhellâ came from pagans and i thought Jesus was really refering to âGehennaâ as it really was and not the eternal lake of fireâŠthen He always spoke in parablesâŠ
Thank you Alex. Should have known the question has been discussed already. And what a long thread it is, âŠa lot there to read⊠Should i raise that thread from the dead or continue here? I just wanted to know if in that passage a long with others containing âGehennaââŠdoes it refer to the lake of fire? If its a reference to the lake of fire, then it never means garbage dumpâŠ
Absolutely it makes sense, but the problem is the significance of Gehenna is not talking about a garbage dump, but rather speaking of the coming judgment that this garbage dump signifies.
The answer is: "When Jesus said, âfear not him who can kill the body, but him who kills both body and soul in Gehennaâ. He was saying, do not fear the fact you can die on this journey but beware of the apostate Jews who are going to betray you and murder you just like they did in the ancient days where brother betrayed brother to death, killing the prophets of God and of fathers (Apostate Hebrews) sacrificed their children (Israel) to false gods and brought upon themselves and all their children the Judgment of Gehenna"
Here is an article I wrote on it may moons ago.
Matthew 10 (The Commission of the Twelve Disciples)
*Summoning His 12 disciples, He gave them authority over unclean spirits, to drive them out and to heal every disease and sickness. These are the names of the 12 apostles: First, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
Jesus sent out these 12 after giving them instructions: "Donât take the road leading to other nations, and donât enter any Samaritan town.Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. As you go, announce this: 'The kingdom of heaven has come near. 'Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those with skin diseases, drive out demons. You have received free of charge; give free of charge. Donât take along gold, silver, or copper for your money-belts. Donât take a traveling bag for the road, or an extra shirt, sandals, or a walking stick, for the worker is worthy of his food.
"When you enter any town or village, find out who is worthy, and stay there until you leave. Greet a household when you enter it, and if the household is worthy, let your peace be on it. But if it is unworthy, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. I assure you: It will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
"Look, Iâm sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as serpents and as harmless as doves. Because people will hand you over to Sanhedrin and flog you in their synagogues, beware of them. You will even be brought before governors and kings because of Me, to bear witness to them and to the nations. But when they hand you over, donât worry about how or what you should speak. For you will be given what to say at that hour, because you are not speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is speaking through you.
âBrother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will even rise up against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of My name. But the one who endures to the end will be delivered. When they persecute you in one town, escape to another. For I assure you: You will not have covered the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.â
"A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house â Beelzebul,â how much more the members of his household! âTherefore, donât be afraid of them, since there is nothing covered that wonât be uncovered, and nothing hidden that wonât be made known. What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light. What you hear in a whisper, proclaim on the housetops. Donât fear him who can kill the body but is not able to kill the soul; rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.â*
To have any understanding of Matthew 10 and the usage of Gehenna, we need to know the definition of Gehenna and its history. Depending on the audience, Gehenna represented something different. Then there are three interpretations concerning this Scripture, the first is that Jesus was speaking to everyone; the second is Jesus is speaking to the Pharisee; the third is Jesus is speaking to His Disciples. So what we must do is know what is Gehenna but also who was Jesusâs audience to discover the intention of those words.
**
So what is Gehenna?**
Gehenna definition: Gehenna is a word from Hebrew Gai-Ben-Hinnom or Gai-Hinnom meaning Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and is still called Gai Ben Hinnom in Modern Hebrew. It refers to a garbage dump in a deep valley outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning with brimstone to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. It is was the location where garbage, refuse, bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, and unfortunately where the children of ancient Jews (Hebrews) were sacrificed to pagan idols (notably Moloch)* were thrown.
*It is mentioned in the Old Testament several places, notably 2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6; 2 Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 7:31; 19:2-6; 32:35. Jeremiah, 19:2-6, speaks of the Jews worshiping pagan idols and committing abominations. Ancient Jews once sacrificed their children to pagan idols in the fires in Gehenna, and this was an abomination; in 2 Kings, 23:10, King Josiah forbade the sacrificing of children to Moloch at Gehenna.
Who was the audience Jesus was addressing?
a) Everyone
b) Pharisee
c) His 12 Disciples
The answer is C, His 12 Disciples. We know the audience from Matthew 10:1, âSummoning His 12 disciplesâŠâ We also know Jesus was addressing them from Matthew 10:5, âJesus sent out these 12 after giving them instructionsâŠâ It is sound and free from speculation. There is no indication He was speaking to everyone, and no indication He was speaking to the Pharisee.
Now we have defined the term Gehenna, and we have established a true proposition concerning the audience. We now must address the other propositions, as who is the âhimâ who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. This will help us identify the true usage of term Gehenna, and solve the mystery concerning Matthew 10:28.
Jesus describes two groups of people. First, those who who will betray, capture and kill you; and second, those who call you names and bear false witness against you. One group of people Jesus said to beware of, the other group of people he said do not worry about. One group of people who betray their children to death, the other group of people will insult you. One group of people who you should fear, another group of people who you should not.
Jesus tells His Disciples plainly the people whom they should not worry about in Matthew 10:18-19,"âŠthey called the head of the house â Beelzebul,â how much more the members of his household! Therefore, donât be afraid of them, since there is nothing covered that wonât be uncovered, and nothing hidden that wonât be made known." Jesus refers to this group earlier saying in his instruction in Matthew 10:11-14 âWhen you enter any town or village, find out who is worthy, and stay there until you leave. Greet a household when you enter it, and if the household is worthy, let your peace be on it. But if it is unworthy, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town.â There is nothing to fear of the town that does not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. They may call you servant of âBeelzebulâ, there is nothing hidden that wonât be made known because Jesus was not Beelzebul, and neither were the Disciples followers of Beelzebul.
Jesus tells His Disciples plainly the people whom they should beware of in Matthew 10:16 he says, âLook, Iâm sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as serpents and as harmless as doves.â Jesus told them they were going as prey to carnivorous animals! They needed to be shrewd as serpents concerning them and He speaks of these carnivorous animals specifically in Matthew 10:17, âBecause people will hand you over to Sanhedrin and flog you in their synagogues, beware of them.â So be fearful (beware) of those of the Sanhedrin!
What is a Sanhedrin?
The Sanhedrin Definition: A council or assembly of judges; a tribunal in which every Jewish town judged matters of lesser importance. It is a great council at Jerusalem, consisting of the seventy one members, viz. scribes, elders, prominent members of the high priestly families and the high priest, the president of the assembly which judged the most important causes, inasmuch as the Roman rulers of Judea had left to it the power of trying such cases, and also of pronouncing sentence of death, with the limitation that a capital sentence pronounced by the Sanhedrin was not valid unless it was confirmed by the Roman procurator.
Now knowing Jesus said to beware of the Sanhedrin, and knowing what the Sanhedrin consists of; we can look at the definition of Gehenna and choose appropriately the definition Jesus was alluding to concerning it.
Despite how they are considered by others, did Jesus classify the Disciples as:
a) Garbage
b) Criminals
c) Children of God
The answer is C, Children of God. Jesus gives a clue to the usage of Gehenna in Matthew 10:21, âBrother will betray brother to death, and a father his childâŠâ Who were the brothers of the Children of God? Jesus gave us a clue to this in Matthew 10:5-6, ââŠDonât take the road leading to other nations, and donât enter any Samaritan town. Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.â
What is Gehenna?
a) A garbage pit outside Jerusalem
b) A place for dead criminals and dead dishonored men
c) A place where apostate Jews murdered their children and sacrificed them to false gods
d) All the above.
The Disciples were sent out to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, they were sent out to their brothers. So the answer is C, Jesus was using the definition of Gehenna, as âA place where apostate Jews murdered their children and sacrificed them to false gods.â
So now in conclusion:
Proposition statement #1: The audience Jesus was addressing was His Disciples.
Proposition statement #2: Do not fear them who insult you or not welcome you.
Proposition statement #3: Beware of the council or assembly, or tribunal of consisting of Jews.
Proposition statement #4: The Disciples are called brothers and children.
Proposition statement #5: Gehenna was the place where apostate Jews murdered their children and sacrificed them to false gods.
Propositional Conclusion:
When Jesus said, âfear not him who can kill the body, but him who kills both body and soul in Gehennaâ. He was saying, do not fear the fact you can die on this journey but beware of the apostate Jews who are going to betray you and murder you just like they did in the ancient days where brother betrayed brother to death, killing the prophets of God and of fathers (Apostate Hebrews) sacrificed their children (Israel) to false gods."
Next, to affirm such conclusion, we know other facts.
Noticed a pattern, in which Jesus used the word âPhobeoâ and not a number of words he could have used if it was God like, âDeilos, Ekphobos, Eulabeia, Eulabeomai, Phoberos, Phobetron, or Phobosâ These latter words mean exclusively, âBe terrified, Be dreadfully frightened, Religious reverence towards, Humble yourself completely the authority of.â
âPhobeoâ on the other hand is a generic term used many times in depending on its context to mean in Scripture as, âBeware, Guard yourself, Be shrewd concerning, Discern the danger, Have caution concerning, be startled by it, raise alarm concerning.â which would mean in my summary that if Jesus was referring to the Pharisee, He was not telling them to be âterrified, or humble yourself completely toâ them but to âbeware, discern the danger of, have caution concerning, be startled by, raise alarm concerningâ them.
Note Luke 12 supports what I am sayingâŠ
Luke 12:1-5
*Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
"I tell you, my friends (still addressing the audience of his disciples), do not be afraid of him who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear him.*
Notice Jesus is warning once again the disciples of the Pharisee. The apostate teachers who have commanded the people of Israel to worship and sacrifice to a false god. Jesus says to his disciples after seeing this, âBe on guard against the yeast of the Pharisee.â and then continues as people trample each other, âDo not be afraid of him who kill the body and after that can do no more, but be afraid of those who kill the body and after that has the power to throw you into Gehenna.â which from the audience Jesus is addressing and the event which prompted this instruction, could mean just as I had seen in Matthew 10, âDo not be afraid (alarmed, discern the danger, have caution concerning) of him who kill the body by accident, but be afraid (alarmed, discern the danger, have caution concerning) those who murder you and then just as they did in days past where they trampled the graves of the prophets, threw their children into the fires of Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear (raise alarm, discern the danger, have caution concerning) him.â
Staying in Luke 12, we read with sound, that Jesus says do not fear God.
Luke 12:6-7
*"Are not five sparrows selling for two pence?âand not one of them is forgotten in Godâs sight. But even the hairs of your head have all been numbered. Then do not fear! You are of more consequence than many sparrows.
The same audience, the same line of thought. Either Jesus contradicts Himself telling the disciples to fear God, and then not to fear God; or Jesus never contradicts himself and is warning the disciples that they will be killed by the apostate Hebrews just as their ancestors killed the prophets of God as they also threw their children into Gehenna.*
Jesus was not warning an audience of the masses of Godâs Gehenna, neither was he warning an audience the Pharisee of Godâs Gehenna, He was addressing His disciples. Why in the world would he only address His disciples to be afraid of Godâs Gehenna? This is the key to understanding the context and meaning of His words. He would not, it makes no sense the Disciples had nothing to fear from God as Jesus said.
Hinnom Valley may or may not have been turned into the city garbage dump by Jesusâ day, but here are a few points which have led some to believe that it was:
The fact that Josiah is said to have âdefiledâ the valley (2 Kgs. 23:6-16) suggests that he made it unsuitable for the purposes for which it was formerly being used (i.e., as a place for child sacrifice). Turning the valley into the city garbage dump would have certainly âdefiledâ it!
The entrance into Hinnom Valley is called the âDung Gateâ in Nehemiah 2:13, which would be highly appropriate if it was used to carry all of the rubbish out of the city. While the original location of the Dung Gate cannot be pinpointed, it is generally agreed to have entered into Hinnom Valley (Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, p. 189).
A number of Essene latrines have been found in Hinnom Valley, as well as sewers entering the valley from Jerusalem (âWhere the Community Lived in Jesusâ Time,â Biblical Archeological Review, 1997).
In his exposition of Psalm 27:13, the Jewish Rabbi David Kimhi wrote: âAnd it [Gehenna] was a despised place where they cast filth and corpses, and there was there perpetually a fire for the burning of the filth and the bones of the corpses. On account of this, the judgment place of the wicked is parabolically called Gehenna.â Granted, this guy lived sometime in the 12th century A.D., so this is definitely the weakest argument, IMO.
While I think itâs quite possible that Hinnom Valley was a garbage dump, itâs not necessary to believe this in order to understand what Jesus was talking about when he referred to this place (for a good paper on this subject I recommend the following by Bob Wilson: What did Jesus mean by Hell). The main idea that I believe is being expressed in Jesusâ warnings concerning Gehenna is that it would once again become a place where, as in Jeremiahâs day, the bodies of slain Jews were cast and left unburied to be consumed by âundying wormsâ (maggots) and burned with âunquenchable fireâ (which wouldâve likely been lit by the Romans to deal with the stench of rotting flesh). Jesus wasnât, I donât believe, talking about a post-mortem punishment of conscious suffering (let alone endless conscious suffering!).
The âlake of fireâ is, I believe, a highly figurative expression that refers to the same national judgment of which Jesus was speaking in Mt 10:28 and elsewhere. This 1st century judgment (which culminated with a large number of slain Jews being cast into Hinnom Valley) was the âsecond deathâ of Israel as a nation (with the first âdeathâ being inflicted by God through the instrumentality of Babylon: How Universalism Has Impacted my Life). To be âthrown into the lake of fireâ does not, I donât think, mean that oneâs body was necessarily thrown into Hinnom Valley, but it does mean that one suffered the âwrath of Godâ in some way during this time of judgment at the âend of the age.â
Well, that day was when? It was either at the Cross and Resurrection, or 70 AD. That is when the Judgment of Gehenna was consummated and Israel lost itâs place and left desolate and in itâs place the gentile people are now called the sons of God.
Jesus was warning His disciples that these âLeaders of Israelâ were bringing Israel to ruin and they needed to be careful not to be caught up in their rebellion from God or they too will suffer during this time.
At first glance, Matthew 10:28 seems unlikely to make sense by translating Gehenna literally as âthe valley of Hinnomâ instead of âhell.â After all, when we think of âsoulâ we usually think of the part of us that will continue living after we leave our body. [This is not IMO the meaning of soul used here, rather think in terms of a âliving soulâ. We use to say âfive souls perished in the accidentâ] If this verse refers to someone âable to destroy a soulâ then we immediately think that humans could not do that â so it must refer to God.
However, notice a point of interest only eleven verses later in Matthew 10:39, the exact same words translated âdestroyâ and âsoulâ in Matthew 10:28 are instead translated âloseâ and âlife.â
MATTHEW 10:39 KJV
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Also the word âhimâ is not actually in the Greek text of Matthew 10:28. Also note that in Matthew 10:28 Jesus was speaking to His disciples, not to those who were rejecting Him. It seems possible, based on the same words being used in the same context only eleven verses later, that Jesus was telling His disciples not to fear those who could only cause them physical death, but to fear those who would be able to steal from them their very life-mission and purpose of being â causing them to lose their âlifeâ as Matthew 10:39 indicates.
To paraphrase a possible meaning of the verse, it would be something like, ââŠDonât let your life be wasted because of fearing physical death, even one as horrible as being cast out from Jewish society by the religious leaders and thrown in the garbage dump".
Just a thought
Edit; Or like SotW said:
âWhen Jesus said, âfear not him who can kill the body, but him who kills both body and soul in Gehennaâ. He was saying, do not fear the fact you can die on this journey but beware of the apostate Jews who are going to betray you and murder you just like they did in the ancient days where brother betrayed brother to death, killing the prophets of God and of fathers (Apostate Hebrews) sacrificed their children (Israel) to false gods.â
Thanks guys, all very interesting interpretations here Iâve never even thought of or have ever been taught.
Why canât ECT folks go into scripture this deep?
They seem to âinterpretâ this verse in the worse literal way possible.
So basically what Iâm getting from all this is that the scripture here isnât talking about destroying ones soul in a literal lake of fire like the ECT and/or the annihilation folks seem to be so sure ofâŠ???.
Caroleem, it must be confusing to you to encounter all these views of Gehenna. I think your original thoughts were closer to the truth.
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
There are many killers here on earth who may threaten us with death. Often these people carry our their threats. Many early Christians were put to death by burning them at stake, or by throwing them to the lions, or subjecting them to gladiators. In the middle ages, even the religlious leaders put many to death among those who disagreed with them.
When âthe bodyâ is killed, the person is gone, seemingly never to return again. But our Lord assures his listeners that these murdered persons are not gone forever! As stated three times in John 6, He will raise them up again at the last day. So their very essence, their âsoulâ is not permanently wiped out by death. They cannot âkill the soulâ.
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
It is important to recognize that some scriptures use âdestroyâ in a different way from that which the modern person thinks of it. We think of destruction as annihilation, or we think of it as smashing something in such a way that it is rendered useless. Itâs original form has been altered. Sometimes âdestroyâ is used in the New Testament in the sense of refining something, so that the original form is altered to a purified form. Consider the following passage from I Peter 1:3-6 ESV and verse 7, another translation:
*Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by Godâs power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials⊠*
Verse 7
⊠in order that the proving of your faith, much more valuable than gold that is being destoyed through fire and being proved , may be found for praise and glory and honour at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Notice it is the proving of your faith which is much more valuable than the proving of gold. Peter speaks of âgold that is being destroyed through fireâ. Now we know that gold is not annihilated or even destroyed in the sense of being rendered useless (such as a toy that is destroyed by smashing it). Rather the original form of the gold, the ore, is destroyed and the impurities removed so that after the refining process is complete, only the pure gold remains. So it is with the proving of our faith through various trials. We are refined, impurities removed until we come forth as âpure goldâ.
So fear God, who is able to destroy a personâs original character in Gehenna, by refining that character, and thus altering it. Why should we fear God lest we are required to be so refined? Because it is a very painful process ---- much better that we should coöperate with the enabling grace of God for purification now, so that we wonât have to undergo that severe process. Even now, we may have to endure hardships which will help us to submit to present purification as the text indicates.
I would be apt to take the verse at its common sense meaning.
Man canât kill the being, only the body. What can a man do to you? Kill you? Then what? Youâll be with God - consciously in the presence of his bliss. Where your enemies cannot do anything further against you, for you are out of their hands - and out of the hands of The Adversary.
God can destroy the soul, the being that a person is, and only God can do that. I doubt God ever will, God is purely a remedial judge who chastens a being into cleanliness. But the verse is plain; âMan canât kill you, he can only kill your bodyâ.
So I take the view that Gehenna is simply an earthly judgment that happened to Israel in 70 A.D. (this explains why John didnât write a single word about Gehenna). Assuming that Gehenna was not a garbage dump, it is still extensively talked about in Jeremiah as a future judgment. Yet there is one verse which seems to present a problem with this view, Matthew 10:28 seems to allude to Gehenna being more. Both body and soul are soul are destroyed in Gehenna?
The problem with Gehenna not just killing the body, but destroying the soul as well, is that I thought the soul and body were connected, where if the body died then the soul died with it? Scripture plainly says that souls die, however this is the same thing as human beings dying. Adam was not given a soul, he became a living soul. If a person dies, then a soul dies. Person=Soul. So if a body dies then automatically would not a soul die? The answer to this predicament is found again in one word being translated correctly. Rotherhamâs Emphasized Bible reads,
**And be not in fear, by reason of them that are killing the body,âand, the soul, are not able to kill. But fear, rather, him who is able, both soul and body, to destroy in gehenna! **
The tense of the first âkillâ is present and active, now we know that âkilling the bodyâ and âkill the bodyâ are two separate things. Killing the body implies simply beatings, pains, wounds, but not death. If I say that poison is killing me am I already dead? No. Do not be afraid of beatings, pains, and wounds, be afraid of the one who can end your life in Gehenna. Remember the judgment of Gehenna was that Jewâs bodies were left unburied, this suggests destruction of the body, not just life(soul).
The problem is, there are differing views on what exactly the âcommon sense meaningâ of this verse is. Some would say that the âcommon sense meaningâ is that Gehenna means the literal Hinnom Valley into which slain Jews were literally thrown and destroyed in 70 AD, and that the word translated âsoulâ here doesnât denote a thing or substance that consciously exists apart from the body after death but rather the physical, natural life of a person (Mt. 2:20; 6:25). And based on Isaiah 10:18, I think the âcommon sense meaningâ of the expression âdestroy both soul and bodyâ is that it is simply an idiom denoting the visible, temporal destruction of whatever is in view (in this case, the destruction of those slain Jews who were thrown into Hinnom Valley by Roman soldiers under the command of Titus).
The audience was the disciples and nobody else and this is very important. In the parallel given in Luke (of Matthew 10), Jesus specifically tells the disciples do not FEAR God, but be warned of the Sanhedrin Luke 12:1 "He began to say unto his disciples, first, âTake heed to yourselves of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisyâ
and for good measure He continues:
Luke 12:4-7* And I say to you, my friends, be not afraid of those killing the body, and after these things are not having anything over to do; but I will show to you, whom you may be warned; Be careful of them who, after the killing, have authority to cast to the Gehenna; yes, I say to you, be weary of them.
Are not five sparrows sold for two assars? And one of them is not forgotten before God, but even the hairs of your head have been all numbered; therefore FEAR NOT, than many sparrows you are of more value to Him.*
phobeĆ = be alarmed, discern the danger, have caution concerning, hesitate concerning.
Therefore, anyone who tells you that God is the one the disciples should be fearful of, the One who kills not only the body but the soul, isnât reading Scripture as a whole and only in part and relying only on their âreligiousâ teachings, and only reading Scripture in part and not in whole.
**Isaiah 28 warns, **
*âTo whom would He teach knowledge,
And to whom would He interpret the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just taken from the breast?
[they say] âFor He says,
âOrder on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there.ââ
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
âOrder on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,â
**That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive. **
*
Amazing point StudentoftheWord! I just finished reading the gospel of Luke the other day and I was amazed at how little Jesus spoke of anything that could be construed as eternal punishment. In face he speaks of Gehenna only once. Taking into account that Luke is writing to the âmost exellent Theophilusâ we gather that it was for the Gentiles, more than a Jewish audience. Whereas Matthew, which mentions Gehenna the most, was written for a Jewish audience (some of the church fathers say that Matthew was original written in Hebrew). Sure there is the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus, but Jesus was using a well known Greek place (Hades) to communicate a now well known fact, the Gentiles would inherit the Kingdom of God.
Iâve found evidence to suggest that Hinnom Valley could have been understood
Geographically as Jerusalemâs trash dump which would have spoken metaphorically of a trashed life, living a worthless life, a life good for nothing but to be trashed, as a term of shame and worthlessness.
Historically as oneâs life being consigned to be part of a loathsome memorial to how a life in rebellion to God ends up, in Isa. 66:24
Historically as speaking of the judgment of God against Israel, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Israelites going off into captivity.
Metaphorically to the Pharisees as a warning of indefinite punishment in the afterlife, primarily remedial but potentially annihilation or possibly indefinitely long suffering.
It was a term that was loaded with âpotentialâ meaning to Jesusâ audience. And I think that Jesus used Hinnom Valley to be an indistinct nebulous indefinite ambiguous metaphor that alluded to Godâs judgment and punishment of sin. If youâll notice itâs most common use is in the hyperbole which speaks of cutting oneâs hand off and plucking oneâs eye out in order to stop sinning. Relational-punishment language is not meant to be specific, explaining the details of punishment, but is meant to be vague in order to increase its fear-factor â oneâs life ending in shame and regret, destruction to oneâs self and oneâs loved ones, and potentially shame and regret, even punishment by God in the age-to-come.
Itâs difficult to say what Jesus meant, tbh. Gehenna is a very loaded and confused word that could mean anything from a geographical location to a Jewish purgatory.
"If apollumiâŠmeant destruction according to the traditional definition by those who believe
in eternal torment or annihilation, then Jesus is lost forever:
" âBut the chief priests and the elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas and
DESTROY (apollumi) Jesus.â Matt. 27:20"
Btw Matt 10:28 appears about 164 times on the forum, I found that out by putting the following into Google 
Should have known the question has been discussed already. And what a long thread it is, 
âŠa lot there to read⊠
Should i raise that thread from the dead or continue here? I just wanted to know if in that passage a long with others containing âGehennaââŠdoes it refer to the lake of fire? If its a reference to the lake of fire, then it never means garbage dump⊠
